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19 yr old US Citizen Among The Dead

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Leave No Doubt, Jun 3, 2010.

  1. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Yeah, but according to "Raw Story" and some previously unheard of blogger it's ok because: it is reasonable to infer that he was one of those attacking Israeli soldiers with a club, knife or other weapon and was shot in self-defense.

    I am unsure how Powerline blogger, John Hinderaker, feels he can reasonably infer this from nothing more than the fact that the dude got shot in the head 4 times but hey, what do I know?

    What's more, he doesn't even count as an "American Citizen" because he was only a citizen by birth. He spent most of his life in Turkey.

    From this information I can reasonably infer that his death doesn't matter.
  3. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    I'm pretty sure that when you commit to a violent act when there's a peaceful alternative, you're throwing your life away.
  4. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    does that refer to soldiers as well as civilians?
  5. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou Rookie

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    The Times quotes his brother saying, on behalf of the family, "we were not sorry to hear that he fell like a martyr."

    Sounds to me like he deserved to die.
  6. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sweetjezuz A Clockwork Orange really IS alive and well right here on patsfans political forum. That and apparently one would garner more sympathy ("count") if they were an illegal alien who snuck over the border and snuffed a rancher or two, than one who earned his or her citizenship. Wow, just wow.

    :eek:I just looked out the window to check if any drones are headed my way, maybe I deserve to die for posting about a 19 year old boy, a boy who earned his citizenship here, a boy who was not just murdered but massacred in a very up close and personal way by persons or a person unknown.

    I'm far less afraid of some underwear bomber than I am of some people ( I use that term loosely) right here.
  7. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou Rookie

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    I don't think it has anything to do with his citizenship. And I equate him to the reporters and such who go in to Iran or North Korea and end up getting thrown in jail for being spies. Were they spies? More than likely not. Were they innocent? More than likely. Did they deserve to be thrown in jail? Of course not. Do they deserve pity? Hell no. If you're stupid enough to venture in to North Korea and start poking around, you deserve what you get. If you are an "innocent" who decides to go poking around in the Gaza strip and end up dead, well, come on. Really? It's not like that is a big vacation destination. It's one of the most violent areas on earth. If we take time out of our day to feel sorry for all the stupid people on earth, we'll have no time left to be happy.
  8. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    No.

    (10 char)
  9. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If I decided to embark on a humanitarian mission (I assume this was indeed his mission) to Gaza or Africa my parents would freak. But they'd also support the fact I at least had a cause I believed in that deeply. Would I be stupid to do such a thing? Maybe, but if that's true then they'd also say my cousin was stupid for enlisting in the military as he'd likely die.

    And no, people shouldn't dwell on atrocities but it's humanizing to once in awhile feel something for slaughtered kids. Or at the very least acknowledge them. But that's just me.
    edit: my remarks on citizenship pertained to another reply, not yours.
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  10. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Making up ethics on the fly to fit your POV, huh?

    The boat was in international waters. Israeli forces attacked that boat. Who were the ones committed to violence? Do you really think the Israelis expected to be welcomes with open arms? If so, then why were they so heavily armed? This was a clear provokation and the people on that boat did the right thing defending themselves.

    If a boatload of Israelis was boarded by Hamas troops with machine guns and tried to defend themselves by any means possible, they would be considered heroic martyrs. Shortly after, about 10 villages in Gaza would be bolldozed and dozens of people would be randomly killed by helicopter gunfire and missiles....and you would be cheering.

    But since Israel was the attacking force, everything's good with you. Reason need not apply. People from the US, Europe, Gaza and Turkey on a relief supply boat are worth much less than Israeli soldiers with machine guns...in fact they don't even matter.
  11. khayos

    khayos Rookie

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    If you can't rationalize the difference between a soldier and a civilian, I fear for your bubble of reality.
  12. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Please...feel free to tell the class how they are so different instead of throwaway comments like that. I've been in both worlds and I have some means of comparison, as I'm sure you have.
  13. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou Rookie

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    Belief has nothing to do with stupidity. I believe that the people of North Korea are oppressed and deserve to be heard, etc... but I'm not stupid enough to think it's safe for me to go there. And joining the military doesn't make it likely to die, ha. We've actually got the lowest KIA rate ever in the history of American warefare.
    And I feel a lot worse for the kids in some poor country in Africa that have no food, no shelter, are likely to be raped before becoming a teenager, etc... THEY deserve our pity, our help, our public outcry of displeasure. Not some guy who was dumb enough to go in to an extremely hostile and contested area and ended up getting killed.
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  14. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou Rookie

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    According to the ROE, you aren't allowed to commit a violent act while there is a peaceful alternative. If you do commit a violent act without provocation you can be kicked out/thrown in jail/put to death so I guess it's kind of like throwing your life away.
  15. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not so sure about that which I bolded. I'd also say there are parts of Africa that are pretty risky. KIA's are not the only casualties of war but that's another topic entirely ;) So is judging who deserves to (randomly and outside judicial perview) die and who doesn't.
  16. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    Figured
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  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    in khayos's authoritarian world, rules like that don't apply to the folks wearing badges, carrying guns, etc.

    Respect their authoritah!
  18. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    heh... "rationalize" is right
    (Freudian slip?)
  19. TBradyOwnsYou

    TBradyOwnsYou Rookie

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    The bolded part: From what you said I interpreted it as though you believed because the individual's intentions were good, that they somehow justified doing something stupid (like going to Gaza during a blockade...).
    There are places that are "risky" and there are places that you KNOW you are bound to get in trouble going to. BOTH sides in the Gaza conflict are fans of the shoot first and don't ask questions later motto.
    And I believe I (and you, and everyone else) have the right to judge people. As did our founding fathers, which is why our bill of rights gives us the right of trial by jury :)
  20. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My response was in general; sometimes what one believes can lead them to do something stupid. Obviously. Some people believe in myths and don't mind dying for them. That's their choice, weird and stupid as it may be. This particular situation wasn't a myth. As to the topic, his ship was in international waters so perhaps he figured it was risky but something which to him was worth the risk. Judging people-as I said, outside of judicial perview which means, outside of a court of law. Nothing to do with the founding fathers :cool: Anyway, you've decided he was asking for it, I've decided it was pretty sickening, so I'll just agree to disagree.

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