Welcome to PatsFans.com

16-0 will be remembered REGARDLESS of a Superbowl win

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mossdeep, Jan 4, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mossdeep

    mossdeep Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    The statement "16 and 0 means nothing if they don't win it all" is crap.

    When talking football numbers we rarely, if ever, lump regular season with post season. There are official NFL regular season records and official NFL post season records. We speak of regular season win-losses or post season win-losses. There are regular season statistics and post season statistics.

    16-0 in and of it self is an incredible REGULAR season accomplishment, it's an official NFL record that no other team has achieved, it WILL be remembered, and should be appreciated for what it is regardless of winning the SB or not. (although it would go down as one greatest chokes but that's for a different thread)

    Lets be realistic, years from now when a team is coming close to an undefeated season, the media will say "The '07 Patriots were the last team to go undefeated and the only team to go undefeated in a 16 game schedule" (then they'll talk about the perfect Dolphins "don't talk to me when your in my town... talk to me when....."). This team will be remembered REGARDLESS of post season outcome.



    Now for a completely entirely different discussion we can talk about "The perfect season" or "The greatest team of all time" (this is where we lump 16-0 and 3-0 together).
  2. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    17,518
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    Who cares?
  3. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,839
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    19-0 team will be REMEMBERED forEVER.
  4. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,839
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    I Do Care 19-0
  5. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    4,171
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    It will always be remembered, yes.

    Just only as a punchline if they don't finish it.
  6. tombonneau

    tombonneau Rookie

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    3,196
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +4 / 0 / -0

    Exactly. You are fooling yourself if you don't think 18-1 or 17-1 or (gasp!) 16-1 will live alongside the Yankees 3-0 collapse in the annals of sports infamy.
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2008
  7. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2007
    Messages:
    4,535
    Likes Received:
    8
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

  8. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Messages:
    10,961
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    yes, the ultimate goal is the sb and losing in the playoffs will ruin alot of it.

    but, it is something to be proud of, like our 21 straight wins that set an nfl record. it is making history regardless of what happens
  9. italian pat patriot

    italian pat patriot Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,939
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    16-0 will be always remembered - i agree

    but if we should be able to close the deal and make 19-0 this team will become a true legend
  10. Disco Volante

    Disco Volante Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    6,209
    Likes Received:
    13
    Ratings:
    +13 / 0 / -0

    Yeah, so we can say this season meant nothing if (won't) we at some point lose.

    Just like the Dolphins fans can say their season meant nothing.

    Hell we should fire Bill if we don’t go 19-0, since anything less means nothing. :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2008
  11. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    17,518
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    Since for many of our posters this is the only season they've seen, I'm sure it will be remembered forever.:)
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2008
  12. TomBrady'sGoat

    TomBrady'sGoat Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2006
    Messages:
    1,769
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    I agree. It's just what the haters are clinging to right now. "If they lose in the playoffs we can pretend the whole season was a total failure." If every season a team didn't win a championship was a total failure then we'd be stupid to be sport fans.
  13. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    17,518
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    Well you do get to sit on the couch next to Shula and Yepremian and watch the playoffs, so that's something.
  14. alamo

    alamo praedica numerum! PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    It's you that are fooling yourself, that's a ridiculous analogy. Reasonable people won't think that. Haters will say that, but those same haters will say something negative even if the Pats end up 19-0, so they don't matter.

    In the history of baseball, teams have been behind 3-0 in a 7 game series maybe 75 times. Only once has the leading team lost. Once. In the history of NFL post-merger football only once before has a team been perfect going into the playoffs.

    You are saying the embarassment of losing when only one team has ever been in the same position is as embarassing as losing when 75 teams have been in the same position and all won? Doesn't make sense.
  15. TIMEsteelersfan

    TIMEsteelersfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Remembered? Absolutely.

    Greatly Diminished? Absolutely.

    Football is about winning championships, not about winning regular season games. As impressive as 16-0 was, and it was damn impressive, it won't mean a whole lot if you turn out to be the second best team in the league anyway. Nobody talks about the 34' Bears or the 41' Bears do they? Nope. Only the 72' Dolphins get the love. Why? Because they won it all.
  16. SunnyDenmark

    SunnyDenmark Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2006
    Messages:
    522
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Agree completely!
    A successfull (regular) season is to win as many as possible to get best seating possible for home field and bye week. DONE! Plus with not too many injuries, Pats have set themselves up in the best possible position to succeed further on in the playoffs. All the records are just gravy and they have really done it all. It will be in the record books for years to come - no asterisks, no debate....
    I think several of the records broken could take many many years to break - if broken at all!

    It was a success, period...They have further enhanced their reputation as the dynasty of this decade. As the team to model your football operations after. As Pioli has stated - the goal is to be (super bowl) competitive each AND every year. 2007 - JOB WELL DONE!

    The only remaining question (depending upon if we make it to and win the super bowl - is if Pats 2007 are the (one of the) greatest teams of ALL time. If champions then obviously this discussion is valid, if we lose in the playoffs then that discussion is mute..
  17. stcjones

    stcjones Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,640
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    Moss...I could not AGREE with you MORE!!! Great to see that Bright minds think alike.....What the Patriots have done in this era of professional football by achieving a perfect season....going 16-0 for the FIRST time in league history....breaking a 35 year old record...is UNIMAGINABLE......Even today...several commentators were talking about how "No one EVER thought that record would ever be BROKEN"...never would have thought it."......Never mind the other awesome and mind blowing records that the Pats were able to accomplish this regular season.....No you are very correct, that if gawd forbid the Pats do not make it to the SB....this has been ONE OF THE MOST EXCITING (and heart attack creating for several games there...) PATS seasons EVER.........Congrats to the Pats.....16-0!!!! New owners of the Perfect Season!!!!! Good post Moss.....
  18. FrontSeven

    FrontSeven Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2007
    Messages:
    1,464
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    Isn't it always a bit of crap to try and diminish one accomplishment by claiming that a team never got the second accomplishment?

    That's what we did to Manning (and Marino and Elway) and the Bills for years. Welcome to the other side of the coin.

    But who would argue that those guys and that team had lots of bad feelings associated with their otherwise stellar careers?

    16-0 is an awesome achievement in its own right. It doesn't need to be justified by any other games or wins. It is what it is. But it's not the actual goal. It's like any other record: Nice but not the actual goal.
  19. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    7,839
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    do you think that pats will have 2 19-0 records in 07 and 08 NFL seasons.?
  20. newton_tom_cat

    newton_tom_cat Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2007
    Messages:
    862
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    wrong, it means dolphins will still be the only team with a perfect season.
  21. NormZauchin

    NormZauchin PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I agree completely. As others have said, most who are claiming that it doesn't count unless they win three more games are Patriot haters. 16-0 stands alone as one of the greatest achievements in NFL history. If they don't win the SuperBowl it will be disappointing and will end "greatest team of all time" talk, but 16-0 will remain a singular accomplishment. Most teams and individuals who have posted NFL regular season records have not won championships in the years that they established the records. It hardly means that the records are meaningless.
  22. patriotsdynasty12189

    patriotsdynasty12189 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2007
    Messages:
    966
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    I wont remember it. Actually I will. BUT IT WILL BE WORTHLESS WITHOUT A SUPERBOWL. We will be known as the biggest chokers of all time. IMHO.
  23. TIMEsteelersfan

    TIMEsteelersfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2007
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    It's all perspective, and what it means to you. In 2004 (Ben's rookie year) the Steelers became the first team in the history of the AFC to go 15-1 in the regular season. We lost to you guys in the championship game and I couldn't have possibly cared less about that achievment... still don't. 15-1 isn't 16-0 but it's not far off, and we did that with a rookie QB.

    Regular season wins/losses are great for one thing... positioning yourself in the playoffs, so you can win the super bowl. Whether fans will admit it or not, losing in the playoffs would crush your fans and leave you with an even worse feeling than you'd normally have after a playoff defeat.

    FACT: Anything less than the Lombardi trophy for you guys and it will be remembered as a complete collapse... a choke job if you will.
  24. NormZauchin

    NormZauchin PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2007
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Those who hate the Patriots will say it, but, then again, they'll say anything no matter how stupid. If the Patriots were to lose, it depends to whom they would lose. Most knowledgable football fans recognize that the Colts - the defending SuperBowl champs - are a formidable team. A loss to the Colts will not be the biggest choke of all time. If they get to play the Titans and lose, or play the Redskins in the SuperBowl and lose, yes, it might be considered one of the greatest chokes.
  25. Doctor DDS

    Doctor DDS Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    A "choke" to me is more related to a game situation than a loss in and of itself. The Yanks "choked" to the Sox because they were 3 outs away and 3 games to none up. If someone had said the Sox would beat them prior to thatSeries and the Sox had won games 2, 4 , 5 and 7 there would not have been any talk of a choke. It's the same with this post season. If we lost to Tennessee that may be a choke because they stink in my opinion. If we are up 14 points in the 4th quarter and let the Jags come back and beat us that would likely be a choke. Missing a gimme field goal or dropping an easy touchdown with the game on the line could be considered a choke. Losing to the Colts, Chargers or Cowboys in a hard fought game would not be considered a choke in my book. Major disappoinment, absolutely.

    There are some years that I can look back on fondly even when we did not win it all. (1986, 1996, 2005 - because we fought through all those injuries) I can still watch games from the 1975 World Series but can't watch a pitch of the 2003 ALCS. I tend to think this year will be one I will always be able to look back on with a smile. The next few weeks will let me know for sure.
  26. Truck

    Truck Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2007
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Does anyone talk about the Dolphin's being the best of all time (other than dolphin's players)?
    No. Even though they went 17-0.

    If the Patriots go 16,17,18-1.
    Yes, People will talk about the Patriots being undefeated.
    No, They will not talk about the Patriots being the best of all time.

    If the Patriots go 19-0.
    Yes, People will talk about the Patriots being undefeated
    Yes, they will be the frontrunners in the best of all time discussions.
  27. karran_s

    karran_s Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Well, some haters are already saying that 16-0 was pure "luck" as the Pats should have lost to the Ravens and narrowly escaped a loss with the Eagles, Colts, etc. They also point out that we didn't wallop the Dolphins who won a single game and that too, beyond regulation time (lucky overtime shot).

    I think that if you are a fan, you should be happy with the way the team has performed and if others are not too happy, hey, tough luck... Let them say whatever they want to, it's their opinion. You can't force everyone to like you. That's a fact of life and if you are a champion, the love hate ratio is roughly 50 - 50 or worse, depending on how great a champion you are.

    You can't win them all is an old saying that always rings true.
  28. sanvara

    sanvara Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
    Messages:
    854
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    True. A 16-0 season with no Superbowl win will go down as the biggest choke job in the history of the NFL.
  29. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2004
    Messages:
    16,128
    Likes Received:
    36
    Ratings:
    +56 / 2 / -2

    Charger fan knows all about "chokes"
  30. PatsWorldChamps

    PatsWorldChamps Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,406
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    16-0 with no SB ring will be the biggest disappointment (not choke) in history, topping the vikings 15-1 year.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page