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15 Years ago, a great act of domestic terrorism..

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Apr 19, 2010.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    On April 19, 1995 the age of innocence came to an abrupt end for many of us, it started with the initial WTC bombing and it culminated with this act. 168 or 169 people died innocently because of two frindgies: Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols. A subsequent investigation led to one other who aided in preparation, Michael Fortier. McVeigh was executed and Nichols is nowliving his life underground in Florence, Colorado.

    Of the 169, at least 19 were children some as young as 3 months... a very horrific act.

    Allegedly this was done as some type of retribution for Waco and Ruby Ridge, but never made all that much sense. WACO and Ruby Ridge were infuriating as that was the ultimate government intrusion... As in any investigation the information provided and information released is controlled and filtered. Some find the results of the investigation as a viable explanation, others do not.

    Anyways our lives changed forever after this, and RIP all of the innocents who were killed in this blast...

    Is it ironical on this anniversary, that there is a demonstration in DC about carrrying guns???... it seems to take away from the memory who died senseless violence... particularly as guns are not in the forefront and have not been....

    Second Amendment March

    They could have at least waited until tommorrow, 4/20 the anniversary of Hitler's Birth, but that would somehow sanctify the Columbine Killings which also occured on that day.

    Maybe everyone should just go back to bed, except for the stoners who really know how to enjoy the day.. Timothy Leary lives on in the minds of many.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
  2. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I am more concerned about this one being held simultanously across the Potomac in Va.

    Militia movement will be packing heat at rally on the Potomac

    washingtonpost.com
     
  3. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    yeah talk about a Dick Armey...

    Maybe we can start our OWN teabagger club with big fat signs saying OBAMA: HANDS OFF OUR RIGHTS TO SHOOT OUR FRIENDS!!!

    I mean, ya can't be sure you have a right unless you exercise it...
     
  4. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    First, there was no real commemoration of OKC bombing on the 5th or tenth anniversaries that I can remember. The date is never commemorated outside of OK that I know of. I doubt the majority of 25 year-olds even have much of a memory of it.

    Second, How were our lives changed forever? I can't sense that and never could. Not saying that I didn't care about the event but I rarely think about it unless someone makes me. No offense to the dead and their families but...

    Third, I see no connection with a pro-gun rally and the OKC bombing. I doubt this event was planned to co-incide with anything on purpose. I might be wrong, but I see no evidence of a conspiracy or intent of anything except for the demonstration standing on its own for whatever purpose.

    Fourth, the connection with RR and Waco is apparent to me. Government abuse of power and the destruction of a government building in protest. While you can draw that connection, the act itself and being insane enough to pull it off is still warped, twisted and inexcusable. But a connection and consequent motivation (albeit a sickeningly obscene one) can certainly be made.

    Maybe I'm missing something here, but I think you're stretching here.
     
  5. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand In the Starting Line-Up

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    #37 Jersey

    I've never before and haven't since seen a person get executed just 6 years after a crime. Hmmmmm.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Wistah....thank you for cutting throught the bullsh1t of this thread author....I mean seriously GREAT JOB!!

    I'd swear the author or a group of loonies just conjured up some random date of sorrow that coincides with this demonstration. and then the author has the audacity to write as if there is actually something WRONG with protesting the very existence of the Second Amendment in general and gun owners specifically.

    Now there are a lot of things I don't agree with regarding gun ownership (owning Ak-47's being just one of them) but I don't foolishly lump them all together and stereotype them as rednecks either.

    Hey, I'm the proud owner of TWO BB-guns myself!;)

     
  7. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    I know...it SHOULD happen all the damn time!!:rocker:
     
  8. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well written Whista, your post is exactly how most Americans view The McViegh bombing, If I had tried to say these things I would have gotten madder and madder as I wrote and started to rant and use profane language then "the holy know it all people" on here would have my post spinned and all twisted up to make me look like a "McViegh Partner"

    Good Post Whista.
     
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OKC was a game changer on many different levels, prior to the militia movement was just a bunch of loonies chasing each other on the Michigan peninsula, lead by the head pants crapper, Ted Nugent..

    McVeigh, Nichols etc. changed all of this, and the extreme righties gained notoriety. Terrorism came home, and while we were all watching for extreme muslims.. american terrorists were amongst us.

    BTW Ruby Ridge, Columbine and Waco were also quite significant as well.
     
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Why not just be honest and admit your feelings regarding the Second Amendment instead of drawing a day of mourning that doesn't exist?

    I'm sure 99.9% of Americans have no idea when the anniversary date of the OKC is.
     
  11. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Maybe they should.
     
  12. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Somethings are forever etched in memory, 4/19 and 4/20 are significant dates.. some will minimize it and think it is no big deal, but killing babies was somewhat out of the ordinary..

    This is a reminder, as if we are not aware of our history, we are doomed to repeat it...

    That day was horrific on many levels, as it came on the heals of the first WTC bombing, and the initial thought was that the Muslims were at it again, it was quite surprising to find out it was militia dudes..

    I find it ironical that these other gun rallies are taking place today... lets try to make a non-issue, a faux issue.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
  13. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    What's really interesting, in an "Oh, my God, you moron's," kind of way -

    The rally in Va. today - the one in which people are carrying their loaded hand-guns and waving around their (supposedly) unloaded assault rifles, is being held in a National Park. (Fort Hunt and Gravelly Park.)


    I've seen a few clips on the news so far - random interviews with the participants - and each of them, when questioned, say they are there to protest a possible repeal of The Second Amendment or they say that they are there because we are in grave danger of losing our rights to own/carry weapons under the current administration and they want to make people aware of that danger.

    The rally organizer said he put this all together to protest the Democratic Congress's capitulation to a "totalitarian socialism" that tramples individual rights.

    washingtonpost.com


    Here's the "you, moron" part:

    This is the first year that they've been granted the freedom to assemble at all - thanks to President Obama signing into effect the recent law which permits the carrying of loaded or unloaded weapons into a National Park.

    Federal government to lift restrictions on guns in national parks - washingtonpost.com

    Does this really sound like a president they need to be afraid of and a congress which is "trampling the individual's right" or does it sound like a great opportunity to show off how well your internet-ordered green and black fatigue cammie's go with your new AK and, oh yeah, check out this shiny new black leather ankle-holster and my intimidating but classy bandoleer of magazines containing ammunition which I have artfully draped over my shoulder while you're at it?
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
  14. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    You must be celebrating April 20 a day early because your above post is logical, well-written and 100% right on.
     
  15. PatriotsReign

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    #18 Jersey

    So, how do you feel about the right to bear arms Darryl?
     
  16. patsfan13

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    This was also the date the Branch Davidians were incinerated.

    Of coure guns had nothing to do with OKC, they used fertilizer, not bullets.
     
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bill Clinton And His Attorney General Used US Army Tanks To Attack American Citizens Burning Them To Death

    Bill Clinton
    Janet Reno
    Leaders Of The Waco Massacre

    Don't try to spin this, this is not a excuse for what McViegh did it is a historical fact.

    McVeigh was a Complete Mental Case, the Clinton/Reno Massacre at Waco pulled the trigger in McVeigh's screwed up brain.

    The government did one good thing, they promptly killed McVeigh just as they should with all "guilty without a doubt killers"
     
  18. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    An observance is held each year to remember the victims of the bombing. An annual marathon draws thousands, and allows runners to sponsor a victim of the bombing. For the tenth anniversary of the bombing, the city held 24 days of activities, including a week-long series of events known as the National Week of Hope from April 17 to April 24, 2005.

    Vice President Dick Cheney, former president Clinton, Oklahoma Governor Brad Henry, Frank Keating, Governor of Oklahoma at the time of the bombing, and other political dignitaries attended the service and gave speeches in which they emphasized that "goodness overcame evil".

    President George W. Bush made note of the anniversary in a written statement, part of which echoed his remarks on the execution of Timothy McVeigh in 2001: "For the survivors of the crime and for the families of the dead the pain goes on." Vice President Cheney attended the service in his place.


    Oklahoma City bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Local, yes - but with national and presidential participation.

    As for "most 25 year olds not remembering," I can't speak for "most" but I do know that all three of my kids, who are in that age range, and all of their friends, are very aware of it - and surprisingly knowledgable.

    Maybe we realised that you really can see the enemy and the enemy can be us?

    These things changed forever:

    60 domestic terrorist attack plots were foiled 1995 to 2005. The attacks were prevented due to measures established by the local and federal government to increase security of high-priority targets and following-up on hate groups within the United States. In 1996 there were approximately 858 domestic militias and other antigovernment groups but the number had dropped to 152 by 2004. Shortly after the bombing, the FBI hired an additional 500 agents to investigate potential domestic terrorist attacks.
    The attacks were prevented due to measures established by the local and federal government to increase security of high-priority targets and following-up on hate groups within the United States.

    Shortly after the bombing, the FBI hired an additional 500 agents to investigate potential domestic terrorist attacks.



    Several key peices of legislation were passed as a direct result of the OKC bombing.

    In the wake of the bombing the U.S. government enacted several pieces of legislation, notably the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. In response to the trials of the conspirators being moved out-of-state, the Victim Allocution Clarification Act of 1997 was signed on March 20, 1997 by President Clinton to allow the victims of the bombing (and the victims of any other future acts of violence) the right to observe trials and to offer impact testimony in sentencing hearings. In response to passing the legislation, Clinton stated that "when someone is a victim, he or she should be at the center of the criminal justice process, not on the outside looking in."

    Building security specifics has been changed for all federal buildings under construction.

    Oklahoma City bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Maybe it IS a stretch - but if it is - it's a stretch that virtually every single media outlet is also making. Perhaps the date wasn't deliberately chosen - but it wasn't deliberately avoided, either, was it?

    Seems to be a kind of "draw your own conculsion" choice to me. Wihch would tend to point towards not minding at all if the events were somehow linked in anyone's mind.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2010
  19. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I believe in the constitution, but somehow do not think our forefathers had assault or automatic weapons in mind.. without regard the Supreme Court has ruled so we live with that decision..

    Do not like the idea that you can bring weapons into national parks, used to really enjoy the serenity of Mt. Washington and all of its trails.. now we will have to wear orange, takes something away from it all..
     
  20. PatriotsReign

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    #18 Jersey

    I actually agree with your opinion regarding assault weapons. Guns in national parks don't make much sense either... We have similar opinions...imagine that Darryl!
     

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