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12 Men on the Field on the 1st Hail Mary - Needs to be addressed

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Ian, Feb 6, 2012.

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  1. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    #17 Jersey

    I was just reading an article on that play and it's bizarre that you can have 12 men on defense with the game on the line, and it only costs you 5 yards while the other team (the Patriots) still loses every second despite the penalty. Doesn't make much sense. :rolleyes:
  2. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    yah smart move by giants. nfl needs to tweak the rule and allow teams to put time back on the clock that was lost on the play. thats all
  3. stevedogc

    stevedogc Rookie

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    I thought the same thing after the penalty. If I were the Giants I would have sent out 12 players again. If you have 80 yards to go in under a minute, Id pass up 5 yards for 10 seconds off the clock.
  4. Armchair Bronco

    Armchair Bronco Rookie

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    My teenage son picked up on this, too. The NFL needs to address this big time.

    He said: "Hey, Dad! They had 12 guys on the field but the Pats still lost 5 seconds! So every defensive team should just have 12 or 13 guys on the field for every Hail Mary play until the clock runs out!"

    Smart kid, my son.
  5. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, this definitely exposed a flaw in the rules, like the Immaculate Reception and whoever fumbled the ball forward towards the goal line with the game clock running down a few decades ago.
  6. Armchair Bronco

    Armchair Bronco Rookie

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    The solution is to put EXTRA TIME BACK ON THE CLOCK if the defense has too many men on the field inside of 2 minutes. Maybe 8 to 10 seconds minimum, or more if the play took longer than that to develop.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  7. A.C Vegas

    A.C Vegas Rookie

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    I think the easiest way to address it is this like an offensive penalty has a run off if a defensive penalty if accepted the clock should be put back to what the clock said when the ball was snapped I thought of that last night too and I am shocked this as not come up before
  8. Armchair Bronco

    Armchair Bronco Rookie

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    That was the infamous "Holy Roller" play. Oakland vs. San Diego with Ken Stabler, Fred Biletnikoff , Dave Casper, and about half of the rest of the Raider team.

    The famous Holy Roller game (Raiders at Chargers - 1978 season) - YouTube

    My friends and I used to re-create that play when we played touch football out in the greenbelt as kids. We always got a laugh, that play was hilarious. And a typical example of the Raiders cheating their way to victory well before the era of instant replay.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  9. Armchair Bronco

    Armchair Bronco Rookie

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    I think the penalty against the defense needs to be more punitive than that. Otherwise, teams might still put 12 guys back there hoping to tire out the WR's and TE's or maybe get someone injured.
  10. sambam94

    sambam94 Rookie

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    game can't end on defensive penalty...so the Giants could not keep 12 guys on the field.
  11. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    When the flag was thrown, I thought it was PI at first. Was momentarily elated.
  12. BradyFTW!

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    #12 Jersey

    45 men on the field.
  13. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    That's exactly what I thought, that would have been incredible.
  14. A.C Vegas

    A.C Vegas Rookie

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    i was hoping for that too but after the Brady INT where the giant pulled Gronks arm and they didn't call it I knew they were not calling PIs that game
  15. Armchair Bronco

    Armchair Bronco Rookie

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    Sure. But let's say there were 15 second left and they had 12 guys on D. So the Pats get a 5 yard penalty and replay the down. But now there are only 10 seconds.

    Do it again. Now there are only 5 seconds. And then no seconds. But each time, you've messed up the play by having 12 guys (or more) out there.

    And if you can get away with 12, why not have 13 or 14 guys out there?
  16. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think if the refs feel that the Giants are consistently doing on purpose over and over again, they can give the Giants' unsportsman like penalties. That would a 15 yard penalty. If Brady keeps on seeing that, he could consistently spike the ball while only costing 1-2 seconds and moving the ball down the field.

    If the Giants did it on purpose, it would only really work once, maybe twice before it would get costly. Or if they start giving 15 unsportsmanlike penalties for it, it will allow the Pats to take risks down the field that could have turn into big pay offs because the worst that would happen is the Pats would get 15 yards off a penalty and the clock stopped.
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2012
  17. Armchair Bronco

    Armchair Bronco Rookie

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    Well, now that the weakness has been exposed, the NFL Rules Committee will have to come up with some iron-clad that's totally unambiguous.

    If they make the penalty severe enough for the D, 12 men on the field will only happen by accident, and if it does, it shouldn't cost the Offense *any* time. In fact, they should come out ahead in terms of the clock.
  18. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I could be wrong, but I think the refs already have the latitude to call an unsportman-like penalty. If teams use things outside of the play on the field to slow someone down from scoring on a two minute drill, they can throw an unsportman-like penalty flag. You can draw if it you are clearly slow to get off the ball carrier to eat up the clock or you somehow impede the delivery of ball to the ref after the game or impede an offensive player from getting back to the line of scrimmage.
  19. Amazon4

    Amazon4 Rookie

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    yah, just like they did about fake injuries/flops to slow down the offense after the Jest game last year. Somehow I don't think it's gonna happen :nooo:
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2012
  20. Armchair Bronco

    Armchair Bronco Rookie

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    Flops are another thing altogether. And there were some horrible non-flop calls this year.

    But guys in the NFL are just catching up to what NBA players have been doing for years.

    Anyone remember Dennis Rodman? He was the original King of the Floppers. To stop flops, the NFL would have to permit replays after each play (not gonna happen) or maybe there could be a neutral "Post-Game Flop Committee" that would decide if something was actually a flop a day or two after the infraction, and then the flopper (or floppies) would get a hefty fine.

    That *might* work, but is also unlikely.

    So, I agree that the Flop is here to stay.
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