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10-30-10, Washington Mall, Million Moderate March

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bring your "I disagree with you but I'm pretty sure you're not Hitler" sign :)

    I'm gonna try to make it. Yes, it's a Jon Stewart event - but never fear. Steven Colbert is holding a "Keep Fear Alive" rally same day, same place.
  2. DarrylS

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    Will they allow signage????.. or take a playbook from the right and just violate the first amendment, not that anyone seemed to care about that.
  3. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You are encouraged to bring your own, or use the ones they have down there, according to The Announcement last night LOL

    It seems to be more than anything a chance to laugh at the whole freakin ball of wax.
  4. Harry Boy

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    Racist trouble makers, just like the Tea Party......
  5. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    So moderates according to whom, John Stewart? No thanks.

    BTW, what is a moderate? Moderate is an entirely subjective term. We constantly hear that term tossed around these days, and I'm not quite sure people understand that it has a floating meaning. A moderate to John Stewart, may not be a moderate to me, and vice versa.
  6. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Have you ever seen his show? While his politics clearly are on the left, the show is nonpartisan in its mocking of politicians and the press.

    His description of moderates in the piece last night is basically the 70-80% of the people who don't think those who disagree with them are Hitler (as per the sign patsfans quoted).
  7. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Stewart is freakin' funny, and does make use of both political parties. His guests include both sides of the equation, and its impressive that he gets some of those high end people. Colbert, is also left, and is funny. For some reason I get burned out on his comedy. Though, some of his interviews are just too funny.
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I think the guy is hilarious. This isn't comedy though. This is real life. He was an open supporter of John Kerry in 2004. While he's certainly funny, and mocks all sides, a moderate to him, isn't a moderate to the next guy. Plus, what's a moderate to begin with? If people consider a moderate to be someone who just meets in the middle, then no thanks. I just think people toss around the term moderate, without truly understanding how subjective a meaning it has. A million moderate march sounds terrific, but in terms of detail, it's somewhat meaningless.
  9. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #11 Jersey

    Maybe a Moderate is just someone who isn't an Extremist - on either end.

    If so, they ought to get their million.

    It seems to me, and I could be wrong, that the most extreme elements are always the most vocal. Maybe because they get the most press, maybe because they're the most passionate, maybe because we're all willing to watch in horrified fascination while it all unfolds - or maybe just a combination of all of those things.

    The most vocal, however, don't usually end up winning. Nor does anyone at any particular far end of the spectrum. It's the ones in the middle, the silent ones, who usually end up with the cookie.

    And yes, there are as many center-right people as there are center-left, I think. But even those who lean right can only lean so far before they find themselves unwilling or unable to bend any further. Same goes for those who are center-left.

    They're the balancers.

    They win.
  10. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I think the whole thing is a bit tongue-in-cheek. I'm not sure whether it's meaningless or very meaningful -- maybe it's both -- in other words, most of us are actually moderates, but the people we see and hear the most about are the extremists on either end.
  11. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    Like you said, the term "moderate" is meaningless. When a word means a different thing to different people, it loses any meaning at all. One man's "moderate" is another man's extremist.

    What if someone was passionately pro-gun and pro-life (positions associated with the right wing), but just as passionately pro-union and pro-gay marriage (positions associated with the left wing)..? Is he a conservative, liberal, or a "moderate"..?
  12. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #11 Jersey

    If it does nothing else it'll prove that Stewart and Colbert are every bit the showmen that Rush and Beck are - and if they pull as many people as Beck and Palin did earlier this month it'll say something, too. (I'm not sure what, exactly, but it'll show something, that's for sure.)
  13. Harry Boy

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    America
    We have the freedoms to do these things, Jon Stewart & Glenn Beck can go to the streets and "do their thing" without fear of being "Beheaded"

    That is the main reason most of the Third World Dictators and The Terrorist Faction Of Islam HATE US.
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    That begs the question, what's an extremist, and an extremist to who's standards?
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  15. STFarmy

    STFarmy Rookie

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    I like the sentiment behind this, as I hate the trend of polarization in politics. I have a number of liberal friends whose views contrast with my more conservative/libertarian leanings. Doesn't make me better or worse than them and vice versa. We have to learn to tone down some of the nonsensical rhetoric. I hate those Hitler signs, no matter what poilitical POV they're coming from.

    I would disagree that Stewart's show is nonpartisan though. Yes, he pokes fun at Democrats and the left, but it's just that - poking. It's never as harsh or critical as his take on Republicans and the right. For example, I distinctly remember a "Bush vacation tracker" before 9/11, yet I have heard little mention of Obama's vacations. He can run his show the way he wants, and he's very successful. I just don't think he's nonpartisan in the slightest.

    Personally, I don't think he's very funny either. Colbert though... that guy is brilliant.
  16. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #11 Jersey

    First off, that's a good question and the answer will probably be different depending on whom you ask. But, since you're quoting me, I'll take it as something I can safely answer with what "I" think.

    Do we agree that there are poles with the "extreme right" on one end and the "extreme left" on the other? I would put the Extreme Right as Skinheads and Militia types and the Extreme Left as die-hard Communists and Socialists. It's in-between that we're speaking about, yes?

    Honestly, I suppose a good definition of an "extreme" would be the personal one - and that would be anyone who's more right than you are if you consider yourself a rightist and anyone who's more left than you are if you consider yourself a leftist.

    I doubt the moderate right has any trouble identifying the extreme rightists - they're the ones who make them wince and feel embarassed. Same for the moderate leftists who just wish that the Communists, the Socialists and the Black Panthers (old or new) would just go away. Just as I wish Jesse Jackson would shut up already about every last little vestige of racism I'm pretty sure that some center rightist wishes Jan Brewer would just man up and admit that no one's been beheaded in the Arizona desert already.

    The tricky part is getting the left to recognize the center right and the right to recognize the center left and to understand that while theoretically they're oceans apart, in reality they're next door neighbors.

    There are extremists on every subject. Take abortion - most people who are pro-life are still understanding that in cases of rape or incest or a mother's life endangered that it would be bad but acceptable. Most of them would never advocate shooting an abortion doctor, either. The extremists will never except rape or incest abortions and they have no real problems with taking out an abortionist. I don't consider a pro-life advocate to be an extremist - I do consider the pro-lifers who are absolutists to be so, however.

    Gun control - most people who lobby for loose gun laws are ok with waiting periods and applications and guns not being available to certain segments of society. I'm fine with that. I'm not fine with those who stockpile AKs and insist that everyone else be allowed to do so with no questions asked. I would regard them as Extremists who haven't stopped to consider the consequences.

    People who lie or embellish to get their way or to frighten people are mostly extremists. For instance, Braitbart, Jan Brewer, Rush Limbaugh and Glenn Beck on the right. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Rachael Maddow, Keith Oberman on the left.
  17. Harry Boy

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    Since Bush left Stewart has been praying that somebody like Beck would come along, Stewart made himself a Celebrity with all of his "Hate Bush Routine" without Bush he was just "another comic" now along comes Beck, Stewart sees his chance, Yo Ho, he's back in the news.

    Coulter
    Limbaugh
    Stewart
    All Show Biz entertainers, the only difference, Coulter / Limbaugh are more successful at it.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2010
  18. DarrylS

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    The right is very good at it... in fact they have mastered the airwaves, and still convince the right wing lemmings of the fabled main stream media myth... "gotcha"...
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Sorry, but no. I don't agree with you. How is a skinhead a right wing political extremist? What do they have to do with lower taxes, smaller government, the department of education, healthcare reform, etc? I'd call them lunatics, but I wouldn't include them inside the political sphere. The same goes for the Black Panthers. Lunatic, or activists maybe, but not what I think of when I discuss politics and government policy. Communists and socialists you can include, because each are advocating for, or intent upon, changing government policy.

    As for your policy examples, lets look at gun control specifically, because I've been called a liberal, communist, gestapo, etc on this subject by some, when I like to consider myself moderate, to mainstream. I support gun control. I agree with waiting periods, licensing, and restricting some weapons (like a bazooka, or M-2 Browning), background checks, etc. However, to me the specific details are absolutely critical. What is the waiting period? How involved is the licensing process? What weapons are being banned? Are their limitations on the amount of weapons one can legally own? Etc.

    This is why the blanket terms are sometimes weightless. You likely think yourself a moderate too, but I bet you'd be in favor of restricting assualt weapons, or limiting the amount of guns someone can own. I'm not. I bet you'd support retraining, or making the licensing process extremely strict. I'm not. I bet you'd want longer waiting periods, like 21, or 30 days. I don't. I bet you're opposed to open, or concealed carry. Not me. So supportive of gun control, which most people would consider a "moderate" position, in and of itself, carries extremes. To me, some of the so called "moderate" proposals, are restrictive to the point of being too extreme. Heck, to many believers of gun rights, my positions are considered extreme. To them, the 2nd Amendment is an inherent right, that should be treated no differently than the 1st Amendment. In other words, it shouldn't be F'd with. Constitutionally, do they not have a point? So who's extreme in this? By their logic, they view themselves as simple believers in the constitution. They see anyone attempting to restrict the right to bear arms, as an extremist. I see anyone who thinks you should be able to walk into a 7-eleven and buy a Glock with your watermelon Slush Puppie as an extremist, while you may see anyone who thinks they should be able to buy an AK as an extremist. So who's extreme here, and who's moderate? What exactly constitutes a moderate position on the 2nd Amendment? Can there be a moderate position on what deem an unabridged constitutional right?
  20. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    I'll go if Jimmy Fallon is the host ... he is a great host.

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