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#1 Need OLD/DE PASS RUSHERS!

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by Ochmed Jones, Sep 30, 2011.

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  1. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Everybody covets them and we have none!

    Not only that but BB does NOT hardly ever draft them, especially highly. (PS: We spent a 3rd on banana boy Crable and a second on slooooowwwwwww as grass growing Cunningham.)

    His passive bend but don't break defense is currently a joke. It has too many veteran retreads that either flat out suck or are mediocre at best. The safeties outside of Chung are not NFL calibre safties and his poor corners are having to cover way too long and have no guarentee that the safties have their backs.

    We can't stop anybody (not named Henne) on third down. If you are named Henne then we can not stop you on fourth down. We rank second to the last in pass defense and 26th in total defense? Pathetic!

    This is the third year in a row that our defense is garbage and the opposing team's laundry guy does not have to wash their QB's jersey after games.

    Bottom Line: in today's NFL where most teams throw first, BB's defense can NOT win us a championship without pass rushers that can pressure the opposing QB with something resembling consistency.

    It is time: BB must do two things this offseason:

    1.) Use some very high draft picks on some talented OLB/DE pass rushers, even if they can't cover, don't play the run excellently, and even if we have to trade UP to do it. We are getting our heads bashed in week after week on defense and it is flat out painful to watch.
    If this defense had to play last year's Auburn team, Auburn would have put a 30 spot on us, by halftime!

    2.) Hire a real DC. I say promote Pepper and go out and hire the Alabama D-Line coach to replace him. A little shot at Saban to pay him back for going to Miami.
  2. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Ahh man, you sound really pissed. I can feel the emotion through your words.

    We all know this to be true. I don't know why Belichick doesn't draft a pass rusher honestly. Even though I'm beating a dead horse, I can't imagine if we had taken Clay Mathews.
  3. everlong

    everlong Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Every year we go through this drill and every year they pass on potential candidates because the value isn't there for the position at the end of the first round.

    Players with both the production and skill set go top 8.

    Players with just the skill set get over drafted no later than the mid-teens.

    Players with the production but marginal physical upside slip into the start of the second round.

    We aren't drafting top 8 or trading there and we aren't reaching in the other two locations. So you get the Crable's and Cunningham's of the world.

    And that's without talking about the fact that in addition to having crazy pass rushing skills they're expected to set the edge in the running game and drop into coverage when needed.

    When we play the draft selection game this year I won't be putting down the name of a single OLB or DE.
  4. Taxed in Maine

    Taxed in Maine Rookie

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    I do agree that it is a major need, but so is DL and FS.

    They have 4 picks in the first 2 rounds next April. They need 2 DL, a FS and a DE.

    I will admit I believe it starts up front on both sides of the ball. BB took Seymour, Warren, Wilfork and Hill in the first two rounds in four drafts. Since then in seven drafts he has taken ONE first day DL, Brace.
    Other than Brace, he has taken one 4th rounder, two 6ths and three 7ths. With Love and Wright making the team as UDFAs.

    The talent drain at DL has hurt the entire defense. Without a couple more talented DL, there will be no protection for that pass rusher.

    I'm not even going to get into the S problems. Let's just hope the DL & DE problems get addressed this April.
  5. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #91 Jersey

    Woh, woh, woh don't you remember during draft day that when posters brought up the lack of a pass rush for the last five years and why didn't Bill grab one because after all he did say just before the draft that this year was the best he had seen in a while for D-lineman. OK Maybe you weren't on that day. Anyways according to many many posters here pass rush is over rated, you don't need a pass rush. :rolleyes: After all if a pass rush is so important why didn't BB take a pass rusher, and he Never makes a mistake.
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  6. patsfaninpa

    patsfaninpa Rookie

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    Not a great year for 4-3 defensive linemen coming up in 2012 draft. Going to be hard to get a guy where we pick. Trade/free agency might be a better way to fill that need. I can see it now. We'll be yelling for Devin Taylor or Vinny Curry. No dice. We might be able to get that 4-3 olb and a FS. But, I'm not high on the defensive line prospects. Zack Brown and maybe Lester or McDonald is my way, way, way, way too early call.
  7. NEP4Life

    NEP4Life Rookie

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    Choose one of the following:

    - <Player> doesn't represent enough value at the position
    - <Player> doesn't fit the system
    - <Player> doesn't have the height/reach/weight the Pats want
    - BB will scheme up a pass rush
    - BB will address the need in the off-season with (JAG) free agents
    - The Pats will compensate for their lack of a pass rush with a strong secondary

    ... and on and on and on... :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  8. cstjohn17

    cstjohn17 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #54 Jersey

    There are none that can play the Patriots "complex" defense, it is futile. Plus you underestimate the current approach, by the end of the game teams are so tired of scoring they can barely catch their breath.
  9. TriplecHamp

    TriplecHamp Rookie

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    #24 Jersey

    past 4 years Ive been getting my hopes up.....never again lol
  10. Peachhead

    Peachhead PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    'Bama OLB Courtney Upshaw just jumped way up on my list. He put on a clinic tonight vs Florida. He's a little shorter than BB prefers (listed at 6'2") but he heavy enough for an elephant role (listed at 265#).
  11. NinjaZX6R

    NinjaZX6R Rookie

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    I love him. He does look like he might be 6'3. I saw him 2 gap tonight, set the edge, run defend well, rush the passer well. Decent to ok coverage but I'll take him. :singing:
  12. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    We did the Florida - Alabama game and with Hightower on the other side drawing the double team, Upshaw has to only beat one man.

    Still I think this Alabama defense is the best version yet in the Saban era, and BB needs to grab a bunch of players off of it.
  13. NinjaZX6R

    NinjaZX6R Rookie

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    Isn't Hightower a 34ILB? Their nickel 34 D looks odd.
  14. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    Normally yes, but Saban is moving Hightower to the OLB spot in spots and bringing Johnson back inside.

    When he did this yesterday Florida reacted and Upshaw had a monster game.
  15. NinjaZX6R

    NinjaZX6R Rookie

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    Ah ok. Though NFLscoutdraft.com has Hightower listed as a 34 SILB/43 SAM.
  16. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    ON first and second downs Hightower QB's the defense from the inside, however on 3rd and long as well as other key moments in games he moves outside.

    Yesterday Florida slid their protection every time Hightower moved to OLB, which left Upshaw one on one on the far side.

    One other note: Pittsburgh fans seem to think they have some insider information and that the Steelers are going to take Hightower in the draft.
  17. NinjaZX6R

    NinjaZX6R Rookie

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    I could see them take a ILB who can pass rush. They need to find a younger ILB for their LB's. Him and Timmons as 34 ILBS...ouch.
    Plus he has the height and weight to play 34OLB too.
  18. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I love the Pittsburgh drafting philosophy when it comes to the defensive side of the ball. They take an athletic player and red shirt him for a year and then unleash him on an unsuspecting NFL.

    The coaches appear to spend an entire year working the red shirts hard behind the scenes, while peer pressure in the locker room motivates the kids to compete hard.

    This is exactly what BB does not do and it drives me nuts that we stopped. Pittsburgh sees a player in decline and drafts a developmental prospect to replace that player HIGH, ie: Timmons, Woodley, Hood and now Heyward. Interestingly all are front 7 guys.

    The funny thing is BB used to do that as well. Seymour sat the first half of his freshman year, Warren sat his whole freshman year and Wilfork rotated his freshman year.

    I think the plan was for Solder to sit his freshman year and get stronger and work on technique. Unfortunately Vollmer got injured.

    So going forward I would like to see a two pronged strategy employed by the Pats for the 2012 draft.

    1.) Use high draft picks on top quality front seven types and give them a year in the system to learn. BB appears to have moved a lot of slugs and bad attitude types out of the locker room; Butler, Merriweather, Burgess, Thomas, etc. Still has Haynesworth and Ocho sucko to go. Now is the time to rebuild the locker room with high character types and use peer pressure to make rookies have to work hard to earn playing time.

    2.) Higher more coaches. We need a real DC. We need position coaches that can work extra with the developmental kids and coach them up; especially at DE/OLB. Put all rookies through an intense in season conditioning program,while working them hard in the class room.
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2011
  19. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    What? Seymour started at NT from day 1 his rookie season. Warren alternated with Mt. Washington at NT from day 1 his rookie season.

    I'm not disagreeing with the rest of your post, only that BB used to do that. It seems to me that one of BBs requirements of a 1st round pick is that that person better be able to contribute significantly his rookie year.
  20. Defsoul

    Defsoul Rookie

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    Has anyone seen Cam Thomas from Virginia this season? He is a 6-3, 270 senior who had 6,5 sacks/14,5 TFL as a junior.
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