Shonn Greene Fumble
 

Do you guys remember the 4th and 1 Fumble of Shonn Greene? Greene tried to stretch his arms forwards to get the first down which of course led to spikes(?) knocking the ball loose and Gregory picking up the fumble.

What I found interesting is that after the play, the TV cameras showed Greene trying to signal that the play was a first down. Did he think that the rules of stretching for a first down and doing the same on a goal line play were the same? It was as if he thought, well I stretched my arms out so I broke the plane so no fumble.

That was kinda weird.

Re: Shonn Greene Fumble
 

Maybe he was asking or forward progress?

The play isn't dead once he gets the first down. It's only dead when it gets blown dead. That play by spikes was genius...absolute genius.

Re: Shonn Greene Fumble
 

Greene was stuffed, wasn't even close to a first down and when he held the ball out he still looked short!

Spikes just swiping the ball away was great though.

Re: Shonn Greene Fumble
 

I had a different question on the same play. The way I saw it, on a play where they had stopped Greene cold on 4th down. Greene fumbles the ball forward (Illegal I thought) and the end result is the Pats lose about 12 yds, plus they ran the small risk that the Jets could recover the ball. On that fumble the Jets had no downside, and had everything to gain. Fumbles aren't supposed to work that way. In the end, all I could think was, "what's up with that."

And whats even more surprising (at least to me) is not a single member of the media or board has commented on it.

Re: Shonn Greene Fumble
 

Several people made the same point here during the game thread and I heard it on the radio a few times the next day. Problem with the argument is that Spikes actually poked the ball out — didn't look like an intentional fumble to me. And I don't think you can blame Spikes for making that play in the heat of the game. (Plus it just made Veren's TD run a little longer.) I think Greene actually believed he could get a first down there by "breaking the plane." More great coaching.

Re: Shonn Greene Fumble
 

I had another question, if the Jets would have recovered that fumble down the field, would they be awarded the ball at the site of recovery with a 1st down or does it come back to where Greene fumbled it from and they are short of the 1st down, making it our ball?

Re: Shonn Greene Fumble
 

if it wasn't a fumble, we wouldve had better field position anyway

Re: Shonn Greene Fumble
 

Yeah, my take was he was trying to say that he got the first down and then fumbled the ball after forward progress was completed and the play was dead. The problem is that I don't think he ever got the first down even after stretching out the ball and he fumbled immediately after stretching out and the play wasn't dead.

Players try to influence refs all the time even when the call is clearly the other way. Sometimes the refs buy it and are influenced. I think Greene was just trying to save his arse by claiming he got the first down and didn't fumble until after forward progress was completed, but probably knew that he fumbled before the whistle.

Re: Shonn Greene Fumble
 

This comment from another teams message board explains the holy roller rule.

And if it is recovered by a defensive player it goes to the defense wherever it is recovered (and of course they are free to advance it until the whistle blows. So the forward fumble in and of itself isn't illegal per se, there are just rules that stipulate how a recovery is treated in certain circumstances relative to who recovers it.

Re: Shonn Greene Fumble
 

It comes back to the spot of the fumble on a 4th down or within 2 minutes of a half ending unless the player who fumbled it recovers it. He is the only player on offense allowed to advance a ball under those circumstances.