Why do we as fans have to defend our own team?
 

I'm baffled - I'm relatively new here, and joined because it was a source of information in the barren wastelands of sports enthusiasm that is South Florida. I grew up in NH, rooting for underdog teams, and was here by the time the 'real' success started, but I honestly can't wrap my head around all the negativity surrounding what is probably #1, 2, or 3 on the list of all time most successful franchises (and imo, THE most given that we've had free agency and salary caps to deal with where others did not). How on earth can so many people think the most successful front office in maybe FOREVER is foolish and they as part time fans/students of the game (ha!) have all the answers? Sorry to rant, but I just can't comprehend this and it seems to be out in spades. I can at least appreciate some of the angst after the Superbowl - it was a disappointment, so it's natural to feel a bit let down and to question everything in your sadness, anger, and surprise. But this was the draft - the area where we have done great year after year, and found production year after year even in our later picks. We all have some occasional differing opinions, sure, and we all have our "binky" picks (thanks for introducing me to that term btw, I do love it), but again, where does all the arrogance come from that "we" know more than what HAS to be either 1, 2, or at worst 3 on the list of all time great front offices in the history of this league (and likely all sports, ever)? I wonder how all these people didn't honestly jump off bridges during the Pete Carroll years (I'm guessing most weren't AROUND during this time but still...) for all the venom I see regarding a franchise that has only missed the playoffs 1 time since 2001...and has won 3 superbowls, been to 4, and narrowly missed an additional after being up big in the afccg. Am I missing something? Do we secretly suck and I just don't see it? Have we secretly sucked for years and I missed the notice? Someone help me understand here.

Re: Why do we as fans have to defend our own team?
 

It's a message board, not a lemming parade. If every post was "Belioli is awesome", the board would have about 3 readers.

Re: Why do we as fans have to defend our own team?
 

Sorry, that's an asinine thing to say. A message board is, ostensibly, a forum for an exchange of information, not a de facto justification for arguing moot points and questioning those who know more than you do. Just because you think you know more than everyone, and a message board gives you the opportunity to verbalize your misconception, does not inherently mean that a message board exists for that purpose.

And edited in response to your addition, just because trolls and argumentative people run up the post count (don't get me wrong, running it up can be good), does not make for better reading, nor does it attract more users. You and JoeSixPat spending 10 pages arguing the semantics of free agency verbiage does not attract users to the board, no matter how much you enjoy reading your own Bull*****.

Re: Why do we as fans have to defend our own team?
 

And yet your post seems to show that it does. The reality is that in any large group, you will have a wide range of opinions and a variety of different personality types. Some people will be optimists and insist that every year is "the year" (see Jets fans for plenty of these), some will be pessimists who see doom around every corner (see Red Sox fans prior to the World Series victory). It's human nature, just as it was in your nature for you to make your attack personal for no reason.

No team is perfect, and not even the best are above critique and criticism.

Re: Why do we as fans have to defend our own team?
 

LOL - Sorry but referencing something that you have done which is directly relevant to refuting your argument is hardly a "personal attack" but if I hit too close to home perhaps you should add some extra consideration into that fact. Human nature is not to inherently denigrate the team you are supposed to be a fan of, I'm sorry, this is flawed logic. Suggesting that, on a fan forum where the unifying factor is supposed to be a love of the team in question, differing opinions thusly justify negative attacks and general displeasure with the team we all supposedly love is flat out wrong (sorry for the run-on). While I can, as much as anyone, appreciate the idea that languishing in your success and resting on laurels is a recipe for mediocrity, there is a difference between potentially constructive criticism, and actively rooting for the downfall of the team by assuming every move they make to be wrong. There is also a difference between trusting in those who know more than you about a certain subject, and "lemmings" as you so eloquently and insightfully put it. For example, lemmings follow the lead lemming with no evidence that said lead lemming knows anything more than the rest of the pack. The flaw in your spectacular analogy is that we have leaders who have flat out proven themselves to be far from "lead lemmings" for lack of a better term, running us all over the ledge. You, on the other hand, and many others who are negative for the sake of negativity in many cases, are much closer to that lemming as you all love to jump on a bandwagon of criticism in the face of undeniable evidence that you are wrong and ignorant (in matters of professional football and running a team - please don't take that as a personal attack, I'd hate to hurt your feelings)

Re: Why do we as fans have to defend our own team?
 

You can make all the personal attacks you wish. I don't know you and they mean nothing to me as a result. However, let's not pretend that it wasn't a person attack. It was. Your opening 'rant' was simply ridiculous given the obvious shortcomings/lack of perfection of this front office. As for the question of "How on earth can so many people think the most successful front office in maybe FOREVER is foolish", let me refer you to spygate and the notion that a simple "Hey, Roger, is this legal?" could have spared everyone all the nonsense we saw this season. Clearly, this front office is quite capable of being as foolish as normal humans beings can be.

As for the 'negativity' angle about me, it's sheer nonsense, just like your original attack. Given that I've been accused of being a homer on numerous occasions, I'd say I'm coming down somewhere in the middle. In fact, here's a different current thread going on where I think it's pretty clear that I'm defending the team and praising the front office:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-...ad.php?t=81847

Re: Why do we as fans have to defend our own team?
 

Comical. Since you've shown a penchant for arguing moot points for as long as I've been here, I won't beat this into the ground beyond this post, but you've completely deflected the original point. Your lemming point failed, now you want to rehash Spygate? You have nothing of substance to contribute so you cite nonsense and the 'nature' of people. You whimper that you've been personally attacked because you have no response to the actual point that was made. You feel you are "owed" something by the team, a common trait that I see in people like yourself (I hate to use the term haters, but dissatisfied malcontents is at least apropos) - you feel the front office should have "spared you" what? The "embarrassment" of spygate? Laughable! They don't owe you anything, and that's where you and I disagree completely. I am thankful for the enjoyment they've given me, you feel they owe you even more. I find that pathetic, sorry if that offends you.

Re: Why do we as fans have to defend our own team?
 

My lemming point didn't fail. You were so off on it that I didn't bother pointing out the obvious. I didn't 'whimper' about being attacked, I noted it in the context of your post. And I don't think the team owes me a damned thing, just as I don't owe the team anything. However, being called a hater is amusing, so thanks. Go ask PatsFanInVa how much of a "Patriot Hater" I was being about the spygate issue.

Re: Why do we as fans have to defend our own team?
 

Do me a favor, point out the obvious for me. Just for fun. Thanks.

Re: Why do we as fans have to defend our own team?
 

Sure thing. My point about Lemmings was the idea about blindly following. You knew exactly what that point was. Rather than just deal with that with something innocuous like "I don't mean thoughtlessly following, but...", you went off on the "no evidence" tangent as if it meant something, when it was inapplicable in context.

I've been a fan of the team since the '70s, and this is the greatest era I've seen. It's not perfect, though (nothing on this world is), and there's nothing wrong with pointing out mistakes when they are made, or even pointing out perceived mistakes when they are thought to have been made.