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IcyPatriot 01-18-2008 08:59 PM

War - The Constitution - Do We Need an Amendment?
 
This site says it pretty well and concise to start:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/proj...randtreaty.htm

Huge topic but after something PressCoverage said in a post I'm wondering why none of the candidates are offering the idea to amend War powers. An olive branch to the public? I know the President cannot do it but Congress can if asked. I think the public would agree something needs to be done to stop the next Bush while keeping our country safe. What do you think?

>>>Leave it alone and get Congress to do their job next time?
They do share in the blame IMO.

>>>Congress should make an Amendment ... not to gain power
but to at least add another layer of checks and balances.
Near impossible to get 2/3's to do it but now is the best chance we have.

>>>The G.O.P. will never cede Presidential powers ... the democrats perhaps
would consider it ... will the majority needed always be blocked by the G.O.P. or could the moderate Republicans be swayed?

>>>Stupid idea FBN you are dreaming?

Quote:

War and Treaty Powers
The issue: How have the war and treaty powers in the Constitution been interpreted?Introduction War Powers of President

The Constitution divides war powers between the Congress and the President. This division was intended by the framers to ensure that wars would not be entered into easily: it takes two keys, not one, to start the engine of war.

The Constitution's division of powers leaves the President with some exclusive powers as Commander-in-Chief (such as decisions on the field of battle), Congress with certain other exclusive powers (such as the ability to declare war and appropriate dollars to support the war effort), and a sort of "twilight zone" of concurrent powers. In the zone of concurrent powers, the Congress might effectively limit presidential power, but in the absence of express congressional limitations the President is free to act. Although on paper it might appear that the powers of Congress with respect to war are more dominant, the reality is that Presidential power has been more important--in part due to the modern need for quick responses to foreign threats and in part due to the many-headed nature of Congress.

The Supreme Court has had relatively little to say about the Constitution's war powers. Many interesting legal questions--such as the constitutionality of the "police action" in Korea or the "undeclared war" in Viet Nam--were never decided by the Court. (Although the Supreme Court had three opportunities to decide the constitutionality of the war in Viet Nam, it passed on each one.)

scout 01-18-2008 09:32 PM

Re: War - The Constitution - Do We Need an Amendment?
 
I just got done reading Charlie Wilson's War (movie with Tom Hanks). Basically, one member from the House, whose home district is just a little hiccup in East Texas, garnered so much power that he put together a war in which no one (public) knew about. At the height of the Soviet's occupation in Afghanistan, Charlie Wilson had most of the CIA's budget going into this war (he was on two appropriations committees). What's amazing is this operation was going on when the Contra Scandal was at its peak. Thus, in regards to your post, anything is possible regardless of the powers that be. Bush has spun policy and so forth and even if there were an additional amendments, I don't think we would see a stop to.......and end around. If one congressman from a little town in Texas can wage a war with the Soviets then I think anything is just about possible.
(BTW, this is a great read and reads like fiction, tho its the real deal).

PressCoverage 01-18-2008 09:47 PM

Re: War - The Constitution - Do We Need an Amendment?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by scout (Post 751083)
I just got done reading Charlie Wilson's War (movie with Tom Hanks). Basically, one member from the House, whose home district is just a little hiccup in East Texas, garnered so much power that he put together a war in which no one (public) knew about. At the height of the Soviet's occupation in Afghanistan, Charlie Wilson had most of the CIA's budget going into this war (he was on two appropriations committees). What's amazing is this operation was going on when the Contra Scandal was at its peak. Thus, in regards to your post, anything is possible regardless of the powers that be. Bush has spun policy and so forth and even if there were an additional amendments, I don't think we would see a stop to.......and end around. If one congressman from a little town in Texas can wage a war with the Soviets then I think anything is just about possible.
(BTW, this is a great read and reads like fiction, tho its the real deal).


the film tells 1/1000th of the story that the book does... which is often the case... we suckered the Soviets into Afghanistan, though they deserve no sympathy for what they did to those people...

scout 01-18-2008 09:51 PM

Re: War - The Constitution - Do We Need an Amendment?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PressCoverage (Post 751105)
the film tells 1/1000th of the story that the book does... which is often the case... we suckered the Soviets into Afghanistan, though they deserve no sympathy for what they did to those people...

Yea, probably end up watching the movie when it comes on TV, and I'm sure I'll be 100% disappointed.

patsfan13 01-18-2008 10:02 PM

Re: War - The Constitution - Do We Need an Amendment?
 
Since congress voted to authorize military action in Iraq how would another law change things?

IcyPatriot 01-18-2008 10:24 PM

Re: War - The Constitution - Do We Need an Amendment?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by patsfan13 (Post 751136)
Since congress voted to authorize military action in Iraq how would another law change things?


Exactly the point of the thread. How can we expect this to not happen again if congress cannot or will not do their job. Do they need to do their job next time or make an Amendment tothe Constitution to protect them from their own selves.

I am not convinced the next President won't pull a Bush ... especially if it's Hillary. America is expecting change but nothing in the Constitution guarantees there won't be another Bush.

That's why I say stupid idea because I believe the G.O.P. in the end would block all attempts. I thought the dabate could be good ... maybe ... perhaps?

sdaniels7114 01-19-2008 07:54 AM

Re: War - The Constitution - Do We Need an Amendment?
 
The problem doesn't lie with Congress. It lies with the people. Deep down inside our society still wants someone to make our problems go away. If Congress had made the brave choice and fought Bush in 2002 they would have gotten slaughtered at the polls. Bush's promise of a quick solution was just too appealing. The first thing any politician has to do is get re-elected. They can't do anything if they get voted out.

IcyPatriot 01-19-2008 02:23 PM

Re: War - The Constitution - Do We Need an Amendment?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sdaniels7114 (Post 751528)
The problem doesn't lie with Congress. It lies with the people. Deep down inside our society still wants someone to make our problems go away. If Congress had made the brave choice and fought Bush in 2002 they would have gotten slaughtered at the polls. Bush's promise of a quick solution was just too appealing. The first thing any politician has to do is get re-elected. They can't do anything if they get voted out.

... you make good points.

DarrylS 01-20-2008 04:05 AM

Re: War - The Constitution - Do We Need an Amendment?
 
I am not a big fan of changing the constitution, as it has stood the test of time.. something like this is a good idea, but the subsequent shyte fight would render it just another joisting at windmills effort.


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