Pew On The "Ism's" Or How Socialism vs Capitalism Fairs In America
 

“Socialism” is a negative for most Americans, but certainly not all Americans. “Capitalism” is regarded positively by a majority of the public, though it is a thin majority. There are certain segments of the public – notably, young people and Democrats – where both “isms” are rated about equally. And while most Americans have a negative reaction to the word “militia,” the term is viewed more positively by Republican men than most other groups.

These are among the findings of a national survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press that tests reactions to words and phrases frequently used in current political discourse. Overall, 29% say they have a positive reaction to the word “socialism,” while 59% react negatively. The public’s impressions of “capitalism,” though far more positive, are somewhat mixed. Slightly more than half (52%) react positively to the word “capitalism,” compared with 37% who say they have a negative reaction.

Young people are more positive about “socialism” – and more negative about “capitalism” – than are older Americans. Among those younger than 30, identical percentages react positively to “socialism” and “capitalism” (43% each), while about half react negatively to each. Among older age groups, majorities view “socialism” negatively and “capitalism” positively.

"Socialism" Not So Negative, "Capitalism" Not So Positive: Overview - Pew Research Center for the People & the Press

Interesting that older Americans who are the ones most likely to be benefitting from socialistic programs such as Social Security, Medicare and Senior Citizen programs are the least likely to approve of that which they benefit from.

Re: Pew On The "Ism's" Or How Socialism vs Capitalism Fairs In America
 

"Talk to the one star"

Heh. What's wrong, nobody write the talking points for you guys on this one yet?

We'll await the Fox spin to be recycled and posted. Wait, do we really think a Pew poll will make Fox?

:rofl:

Re: Pew On The "Ism's" Or How Socialism vs Capitalism Fairs In America
 

Well, for older generations, socialism was linked a lot more with Stalinism than it is today, where the Swedish example is probably more the point of comparison than what is going on in North Korea. Even a lot of capitalists today support a few of the measures that are out of the socialist ideal.

It's all context. At the risk of introducing a wild hypothetical, if the US were invaded, the hordes of gun-toting Americans that would join the insurgency as part of "militias" would probably have a favorable view among most Americans.

That might speak to the idea that they are perhaps more principled (for better or worse depending on your perspective), seeking what they think is better for the country rather than simply seeking what works best for them. There's a certain admirable quality about that.

Re: Pew On The "Ism's" Or How Socialism vs Capitalism Fairs In America
 

Nik, I think your idea that the older folks who are so ideologically opposed to socialism are standing on principle might be more compelling, were they not so vociferously against cutting any of the fruits of the state sector that they themselves receive, such as social security and medicare.

By contrast, the young - who stand to pay for those benefits - show a willingness to pay going forward for a measure of public sector support across society.

One might also explain the Pew poll by a "ratcheting" concept: It is rational to have attained a certain standing vis a vis the state/private mix, and seek to retain that standing, at an advanced age.

By contrast, if one has a "veil of ignorance" drawn over one's own future and that of one's peers (i.e., you do not know for certain who will need the supports of the future,) you are more likely to choose a state of affairs by which both your risks and those of your peers are mitigated.


PFnV

Re: Pew On The "Ism's" Or How Socialism vs Capitalism Fairs In America
 

Fair points. I'd probably like to give you a better answer, but time doesn't permit, so I'll leave it at that. ;)

Your first point is a good example of how "capitalists" do support at least a modicum of socialism.

Re: Pew On The "Ism's" Or How Socialism vs Capitalism Fairs In America
 

"Teaming-up" with wifey once again? Isn't that special....move, I think I'm gettn' sick!! :eek:

Re: Pew On The "Ism's" Or How Socialism vs Capitalism Fairs In America
 

None of us "older folks" (yourself included) would give a rats behind about social security "IF" we hadn't been FORCED to contribute to it all our fuggn' lives PFiVA. So yeah, we now have a right to want that money to be where it's supposed to be when we retire.

Only an idiot pays for something and doesn't care about what he/she gets in return.

Re: Pew On The "Ism's" Or How Socialism vs Capitalism Fairs In America
 

Thought you had her on iggy, PR... you just can't leave the PFnV family alone, it seems.

Nik, we have explained the draw for the middle-aged and older folks, who, like PR, are supportive of socialist programs for themselves.

We can explain how younger age cadres would believe a "covered" society to be a better society, in the abstract, since they do not know whether they will need a social safety net or not.

In earlier age cadres - say, my own/PR's (end of baby boom) - Kids from many walks of life believed it was a given that bad things would not happen to them. We all grew up thinking we were bullet-proof, recession-proof, etc. I wonder whether that is as strong an impulse in millennials. I believe the tendency persisted at least in "generation X."

The answer to that question will be significant. If they are acting out of ideology, changing (perhaps more mature) will likely change their answer.

If, on the other hand, millenials perceive themselves as vulnerable to the lurching nature of unregulated markets, their reaction to socialism will likely persist.

As PR shows, we all embrace some socialist features in our economy; it is, in fact, a mixed economy, and those with ideological axes to grind about taxes, deficits, and the like, pull up short of the big programs, medicare and social security, which cover just about all Americans eventually. Those programs are also responsible for the majority of government spending, and the proportion will grow.

Talk about a sense of "entitlement(s)".

At any rate, I am far from against these programs. I do believe, however, that we need to pay our bills. If we are retaining medicare and social security, we will raise taxes. Period. There is not enough money to borrow in the world to cover the demographic tidal wave of the baby boom, and as we've seen, the entitlements will not be sacrificed by those who rely on them.

Naturally, the something-for-nothing crowd will continue to insist that nobody pay their taxes, ever, and simultneously insist that they be able to collect from a system they "paid into." Never mind that the amount they paid in is not the equivalent, on average, of what they are able to take out. Social Security and Medicare assume growing age cadres to provide current retirees more benefits than they "paid for."

The question appears to be not whether Socialism is popular; as PR shows, everybody wants the government's help. The question is whether we are each individually willing to contribute for the good of all, along the lines of what we have done thus far vis a vis Social Security and Medicare.

We'll all likely work longer. We'll all likely add another percent to our Social Security tax. We'll likely stop the practice of allowing earners past 108K or so (I believe that's the current cutoff), to skip the social security payment.

I'm positively excited to see what this next crop of young punks make of politics going forward... they did themselves proud in '08... but then, hey, a lot of people did ;)

PFnV

Re: Pew On The "Ism's" Or How Socialism vs Capitalism Fairs In America
 

It could just be that they're acting out of ignorance. The following quote is just plain disheartening - especially when you consider it might be correct.

The poll's conclusion should not be interpreted to mean any shift in the country's thinking about these terms because many of the respondents may not have known what the words really meant.

"Do they know what either of these words mean?" Jamieson of the University of Pennsylvania asked rhetorically. "'Socialism' is not a word used in ordinary political debate nowadays. When people hear the word, what do they actually think? Do they think of a political philosophy advanced by Karl Marx or do they think of someone being highly sociable. When they hear 'capital' do they think they big white building in Washington, or uppercase letters?"

'Socialist' Not a Slur for Many, Poll Finds - ABC News

Re: Pew On The "Ism's" Or How Socialism vs Capitalism Fairs In America
 

I have MrsPFiVA on ignore...I never said I had you both on it. After all, how could I ever get through a day without reading one of your lengthy posts?;)

I don't understand why you never admit that the problem with soc security is that the gov't began putting the money into the general fund sometime in the 60's? "THE PROBLEM" is that our gov't sees social security as just an extension of the federal tax. Can't you admit that?

When I retire, I'll have contrited $130 to $150k to SS over my career. I started contributing in 1982. Had I been able to put that money into a 401k, there would be enough to pay me $30k/yr for 20 years after I retire....easily.

So, no, I do not cherish social programs at all. Even the one's I'll be eligible to receive upon retirement. But our gov't TAKES money from us all our lives for these programs which leaves people like me with LESS to invest for my own retirement. Basically, our gov't has hooked the American people into dependancy by forcing us all to depend upon them.

I'd prefer to provide for all my own needs, but that opportunity was taken from me before I even began my career. Now, had the federal gov't decided to end social security 20 years ago AND stopped collecting SS taxes, I'd be fine & dandy with not getting any SS upon retirement.