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-   -   4-3 Defense changed because of opponent matchups? (http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/262900-4-3-defense-changed-because-opponent-matchups.html)

upstater1 08-21-2009 01:35 PM

4-3 Defense changed because of opponent matchups?
 
I've been thinking in the back of my mind that Belichick no longer fears the Colts. not because they lack players anymore, but because Dungy is gone and the OL looks like a sieve. This Caldwell fellow flamed out royally during his first HC gig, and Peyton called him out this offseason.

In most sports, teams are designed with the idea of besting their best competitors. For New England in the last decade, there was no getting to the Super Bowl without getting by Indianapolis. The 3-4 defense was great for frustrating Manning, because Manning loves to grab chunks of yards, and for many years he lacked the patience to take a team downfield and simply settle for a field goal. Belichick's 3-4 was Manning's kryptonite (until that Championship game implosion).

I'm not saying this is anything more than speculation, but I believe that the Patriots were somewhat designed to defeat high flying passing attacks, the likes we've seen from the Colts and Rams of 2001-2002. If the Colts are no longer the threat they once were (and I for one believe that firmly) then it would make sense for Belichick to move away from the one defense that has repeatedly frustrated Peyton Manning.

robertweathers 08-21-2009 01:42 PM

Re: 4-3 Defense changed because of opponent matchups?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by upstater1 (Post 1468104)
I've been thinking in the back of my mind that Belichick no longer fears the Colts. not because they lack players anymore, but because Dungy is gone and the OL looks like a sieve. This Caldwell fellow flamed out royally during his first HC gig, and Peyton called him out this offseason.

In most sports, teams are designed with the idea of besting their best competitors. For New England in the last decade, there was no getting to the Super Bowl without getting by Indianapolis. The 3-4 defense was great for frustrating Manning, because Manning loves to grab chunks of yards, and for many years he lacked the patience to take a team downfield and simply settle for a field goal. Belichick's 3-4 was Manning's kryptonite (until that Championship game implosion).

I'm not saying this is anything more than speculation, but I believe that the Patriots were somewhat designed to defeat high flying passing attacks, the likes we've seen from the Colts and Rams of 2001-2002. If the Colts are no longer the threat they once were (and I for one believe that firmly) then it would make sense for Belichick to move away from the one defense that has repeatedly frustrated Peyton Manning.

They need to beat teams with good run defenses and great pass rushes now. See Steelers and Giants. In theory, that would mean having a strong running game and a good 3-step-drop passing game and strong pass-protection.

They have the O-line w additions such as Vollmer and Baker to pass block.

They have the passing game w/ additions such as Baker & Smith (TBD)

They have the running game w/ the addition of Taylor, Baker to run-block and a healthy Maroney.

Time will tell is this is enough.

xmarkd400x 08-21-2009 02:45 PM

Re: 4-3 Defense changed because of opponent matchups?
 
I really think it just depends on the personnel. The Patriots picked up a lot of players who are DE/OLB types, but tend to lack in coverage. To augment this, you put them on the line and have the DBs cover.

So, I think the 4-3 is still more of a 3-4, but with one OLB putting his hand down and lining up at the DE spot, and being asked to do a little less of the OLB-type things, but still not strictly DE-type things.

stinkypete 08-22-2009 09:13 AM

Re: 4-3 Defense changed because of opponent matchups?
 
I think it would be very un-Belichick to build a defense around one opponent. Yes, the Pats/Colts rivalry has gotten plenty of airplay in a Sox/Yankees or Celtics/Lakers sense, but Indy is just one team in a conference that has produced plenty of perennial contenders this decade.

When Belichick laid down the groundwork for the 3-4 defense during the 2003 offseason, the Colts were not necessarily on the radar as a perennial contender in waiting. The AFC was more of a jumble with the likes of Oakland, Miami, Tennessee, New York and Denver looking as ready to make the leap as Indy.

Though I do agree that the 3-4 has been the best defense for beating Peyton Manning. This may be the primary reason why New England and Pittsburgh have dominated the AFC, with Indy finishing a distant 3rd in comparison. The Colts can't even get past San Diego, which has all of one playoff victory against non-Colts opponents this decade.

Bluto 08-24-2009 06:57 PM

Re: 4-3 Defense changed because of opponent matchups?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by stinkypete (Post 1468944)
I think it would be very un-Belichick to build a defense around one opponent. Yes, the Pats/Colts rivalry has gotten plenty of airplay in a Sox/Yankees or Celtics/Lakers sense, but Indy is just one team in a conference that has produced plenty of perennial contenders this decade.

When Belichick laid down the groundwork for the 3-4 defense during the 2003 offseason, the Colts were not necessarily on the radar as a perennial contender in waiting. The AFC was more of a jumble with the likes of Oakland, Miami, Tennessee, New York and Denver looking as ready to make the leap as Indy.

Though I do agree that the 3-4 has been the best defense for beating Peyton Manning. This may be the primary reason why New England and Pittsburgh have dominated the AFC, with Indy finishing a distant 3rd in comparison. The Colts can't even get past San Diego, which has all of one playoff victory against non-Colts opponents this decade.

The 3-4 just offers more options and additional confusion for the offense. Look at Buffalo who went 1-7 vs. 3-4 teams last season. Stick to the many options.

spacecrime 08-24-2009 07:17 PM

Re: 4-3 Defense changed because of opponent matchups?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by upstater1 (Post 1468104)
I've been thinking in the back of my mind that Belichick no longer fears the Colts. not because they lack players anymore, but because Dungy is gone and the OL looks like a sieve. This Caldwell fellow flamed out royally during his first HC gig, and Peyton called him out this offseason.

This Belichick fellow flamed out royally his first HC gig, and he sucked not only his first offseason, but his first offseason, his first regular season, and his second offseason. If Caldwell is true to the pattern, the Colts will win 3 superbowls in the next five years.

mayoclinic 08-24-2009 10:54 PM

Re: 4-3 Defense changed because of opponent matchups?
 
Here's a nice read on the Pats using more 4-3 from ProFootballWeekly:

ProFootballWeekly.com - Patriots adding 4-3 elements to defense

Nothing earth-shattering, but a decent analysis.

ICSB 08-24-2009 11:09 PM

Re: 4-3 Defense changed because of opponent matchups?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by upstater1 (Post 1468104)
OL looks like a sieve.

It does? Based on preseason? Looked okay to me against the Eagles. Much better then Patriots o line against the Bengals of all teams.:eek:

Quote:

This Caldwell fellow flamed out royally during his first HC gig, and Peyton called him out this offseason.
No he didnt. He expressed a desire to know what would happen with Mudd and Moore. They are back. He wanted to know who his OC would be for the season and if his o line coach would be back. That is all. More the media making a big deal out of nothing. Seems to me it was more directed to Polian.

Quote:

3-4 was Manning's kryptonite (until that Championship game implosion).
Actually it started in 2005. Your defense has declined some since then. Actually should we just say since Ty Law left? The SD defense has become to Peyton what the Patriots D of old was.

The 3-4 D is not what gives Peyton trouble alone. A 3-4 with talent is what gives any QB trouble. A 4-3 with talent can give Peyton trouble. (see TN)



And if your HC actually changed your D in order to go along with a popular predicted demise of a team then he is losing his marbles. Thats more something Jack Del Rio would do.

And the Colts can throw the ball pretty well. Peyton can put up a lot of points to Wayne, Clark and Gonzalez and others. I do hope people underestimate our passing game then.

upstater1 08-24-2009 11:27 PM

Re: 4-3 Defense changed because of opponent matchups?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spacecrime (Post 1471231)
This Belichick fellow flamed out royally his first HC gig, and he sucked not only his first offseason, but his first offseason, his first regular season, and his second offseason. If Caldwell is true to the pattern, the Colts will win 3 superbowls in the next five years.

Go back and check the record.

Belichick brought the Browns to the playoffs.

Caldwell's accomplishment is someone in the vicinity of the next universe of Belichick's accomlishment.

I'll bring this back up with a big fat I TOLD YOU SO at the end of the season. This coach is a disaster for the Colts.

upstater1 08-24-2009 11:29 PM

Re: 4-3 Defense changed because of opponent matchups?
 
Expressed a desire, eh? To the media? LOL, keep telling yourself that.


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