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-   -   LB - Pass Rush and Run Stopping (http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/250086-lb-pass-rush-run-stopping.html)

cstjohn17 07-11-2009 09:15 PM

LB - Pass Rush and Run Stopping
 
LB seems to be the the biggest question mark on the team.

The offense should be in the top 2-3 averaging around 25 PPG, D Line will be very good, secondary looks improved, special teams will be in the top 10 but what about the LBs?

Run stopping - IMO this will be a bigger factor than pass rush, 12 of the 16 games on the schedule are against run first opponents (twice against Buffalo, Jets, Miami and then Atlanta, Baltimore, Denver, Tennessee, Carolina, Jacksonsville).

Pass rush - The Pats appear to have more blitzers at Safety than in previous years, once Rodney went down the Pats were forced to play a very vanilla scheme (two Safeties back). The lack of skills at CB was also a factor in years past. I don't expect Woods, Crable, etc. to be great but it shouldn't be as big of issue as the hype.

If the Patriots can stop the run they should be 11-5 or better, if not they won't make the playoffs.

BradyFTW! 07-11-2009 10:53 PM

Re: LB - Pass Rush and Run Stopping
 
What makes it even questionable if the Pats will be good against the run? Woods and Thomas both set the edge well, Seymour is amazing against the run, Wilfork and Warren are themselves... barring multiple injuries, of course they'll be good against the run. In short yardage situations, they can opt to bring in Brace, too. In the front 7, the only question mark for run-stopping is ILB opposite Mayo. Bruschi's toast, and Guyton's more of a speed guy, so hopefully Lenon is able to play a role here. Ultimately, though, I have the utmost confidence that the Pats will be excellent against the run.

Personally, I'm a lot more worried about third-down pass defense.

Box_O_Rocks 07-11-2009 11:03 PM

Re: LB - Pass Rush and Run Stopping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BradyFTW! (Post 1427274)
What makes it even questionable if the Pats will be good against the run? Woods and Thomas both set the edge well, Seymour is amazing against the run, Wilfork and Warren are themselves... barring multiple injuries, of course they'll be good against the run. In short yardage situations, they can opt to bring in Brace, too. In the front 7, the only question mark for run-stopping is ILB opposite Mayo. Bruschi's toast, and Guyton's more of a speed guy, so hopefully Lenon is able to play a role here. Ultimately, though, I have the utmost confidence that the Pats will be excellent against the run.

Personally, I'm a lot more worried about third-down pass defense.

Funny, you're worried about third down pass defense after noting Guyton being a speed guy.

Washington v. Guyton - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.com
Quote:

Mike Lombardi of the National Football Post wrote yesterday on how Jets running back Leon Washington is a tough matchup.
"Leon Washington is a dynamic running back with the unique skills to make plays in the open field. He’s a tough player for opponents to match up against each week and gives defensive coordinators nightmares in their game plan meetings. Every team in the AFC East must have a linebacker or safety who can play man to man on Washington or he will take over the game."

After reading Lombardi, I was curious how the Patriots approached Washington, so the Patriots-Jets game from Nov. 13, 2008 was brought up on the DVR.

One thought came to mind after recapping all the plays Washington was released into routes on passing plays: Linebacker Gary Guyton is the Patriots' answer.

Washington did hurt the Patriots in that game -- his first-quarter touchdown catch was beautifully designed and executed, and was essentially a running play that exploited Deltha O'Neal, Pierre Woods and Brandon Meriweather -- but Guyton proved up to the difficult task of defending Washington man-to-man.

I counted four different times in which Guyton was locked on Washington man-to-man in which he either batted down a pass or had tight coverage. The most impressive play came in overtime, in open space across the middle on second-and-15 when he maintained tight coverage on Washington and knocked down a pass.

Assuming Washington and the Jets work out their contract differences, this will be a key matchup to watch when the Patriots and Jets play this season (Sept. 21 and Nov. 22), and also reflects how Guyton should continue to be an important part of the Patriots' linebacker corps.
Guyton and Mayo will both be better in coverage in their second season...and the secondary looks deeper too.

PATRIOT64 07-11-2009 11:23 PM

Re: LB - Pass Rush and Run Stopping
 
While we talk about the lack of a pass rush from OLBs ,one must expect that either Mayo or Guyton has to become a once in every while blitzer and press the pocket more often than last season or at least put some pressure on the passer.

If Mayo and Guyton struggle to get any pressure on a consistent basis and the OLBs do less than average as some here expect, then the secondary is going to get a workout and they better be up to the task or almost every game could be 38-31 type barn burners.

BradyManny 07-12-2009 12:14 AM

Re: LB - Pass Rush and Run Stopping
 
To me, the biggest thing this season is - will Mayo and Guyton be reliable in pass coverage? AD basically was the babysitter for those two in the early part of the season last year, and before we could find out how their progression was going, AD broke his arm and the defense fell apart.

While I'd say AD is above average in coverage for an OLB, if he's rushing the passer more, we're in better shape. Consider that in 19 games playing OLB for the Patriots (since the Colvin injury), he has 13 sacks - and then consider that for the majority of games in 2008, he was probably only rushing the passer on a portion of the passing situations for the aforementioned reason.

Of course, the improved secondary should help greatly.

HEY BRO! WHAT UP? 07-12-2009 12:48 AM

Re: LB - Pass Rush and Run Stopping
 
I'm surprised that guys like BradyFTW!, Deus, Da Bruinz, Maverick4, Appelstrudel and others head's haven't exploded with all the threads asking about the LB's. I went on my rant first, then State, then Tripplechamp. I said my peace and there is no reason for me to keep beating a dead horse. The good news is, these questions will be answered. However, the bad news is, we will have to wait until the end of the season to truly analyze how they did.

maverick4 07-12-2009 12:51 AM

Re: LB - Pass Rush and Run Stopping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Box_O_Rocks (Post 1427284)
Funny, you're worried about third down pass defense after noting Guyton being a speed guy.

Washington v. Guyton - Reiss' Pieces - Boston.comGuyton and Mayo will both be better in coverage in their second season...and the secondary looks deeper too.

Guyton is like our new Phifer, a great cover LB. We still need to find a new Ted Johnson LB though, that's been missing since 2004.

AzPatsFan 07-12-2009 03:58 AM

Re: LB - Pass Rush and Run Stopping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PATRIOT64 (Post 1427294)
While we talk about the lack of a pass rush from OLBs ,one must expect that either Mayo or Guyton has to become a once in every while blitzer and press the pocket more often than last season or at least put some pressure on the passer.

If Mayo and Guyton struggle to get any pressure on a consistent basis and the OLBs do less than average as some here expect, then the secondary is going to get a workout and they better be up to the task or almost every game could be 38-31 type barn burners.

A nice theory ... except the injury situation was terrible last season at LB; the secondary was inferior; and many players were rookies.

And yet the games were not ail 38-31. In fact few were. In fact the Defense was a Top Ten Defense, despite all that. Your fears are exaggerated.:rolleyes:

cstjohn17 07-12-2009 06:40 AM

Re: LB - Pass Rush and Run Stopping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BradyFTW! (Post 1427274)
What makes it even questionable if the Pats will be good against the run? Woods and Thomas both set the edge well, Seymour is amazing against the run, Wilfork and Warren are themselves... barring multiple injuries, of course they'll be good against the run. In short yardage situations, they can opt to bring in Brace, too. In the front 7, the only question mark for run-stopping is ILB opposite Mayo. Bruschi's toast, and Guyton's more of a speed guy, so hopefully Lenon is able to play a role here. Ultimately, though, I have the utmost confidence that the Pats will be excellent against the run.

Personally, I'm a lot more worried about third-down pass defense.

I guess another way to look at it is that if the Pats are scoring a lot it will be hard for teams to keep pounding the rock.

State 07-12-2009 09:00 AM

Re: LB - Pass Rush and Run Stopping
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BradyFTW! (Post 1427274)
What makes it even questionable if the Pats will be good against the run? Woods and Thomas both set the edge well, Seymour is amazing against the run, Wilfork and Warren are themselves... barring multiple injuries, of course they'll be good against the run. In short yardage situations, they can opt to bring in Brace, too. In the front 7, the only question mark for run-stopping is ILB opposite Mayo. Bruschi's toast, and Guyton's more of a speed guy, so hopefully Lenon is able to play a role here. Ultimately, though, I have the utmost confidence that the Pats will be excellent against the run.

Personally, I'm a lot more worried about third-down pass defense.

I'm sorry: a lot of trite metaphors are used.

I'm not sold on Woods, obviously. Crable is the real deal, though. Don't expect too much with Paris. Just ask any Detroit fan. He's adequate at best.

But what needs to be said again is Bruschi's inability to play at the level we are used to. I don't want to become disappointed in his play after so many great years. Some of us are higher on Guyton playing a starting role alongside Mayo than Bruschi.

I don't want another LB like Vrabel last year, who seemed to drop off the map. It really started in the previous season's SB when, uncharacteristically, he was small potatoes. One can see his plummeting production. He still had some big games--he is/was a great player--but the tank is obviously running low.

2005--80 solo tackles (16 starts)
2006--59 solo (16 starts)
2007--53 solo (15 starts)
2008--36 solo tackles (14 starts)*


* He played each year in all 16 games.

He usually came up so big on the big stage.

Will Coach Belichick have The Talk with Bruschi, or does he plan on using him situationally. If so, is Bruschi on board with this? Anyone know anything?


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