Jackson, Cassel, Hobson survive first cutdown

Jimke said:

I miss Victor Kiam and Zeke Mowatt.

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Oh hey... :horn:

It's honestly only a matter of time before Cassel gets cuts

Jimke said:

Cassel will start on Thursday night and play most of the game.

He will leave the game late in the fourth quarter with the score

49 to 0 Giants. On Saturday BB will cut Gutierrez and keep Cassel

because Cassel has more experience.

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Jimke,I think You are having a flashback from too many Schaeffer Beers in The 1970's ! :singing:

Too bad you can't IR players for incompetence. All three would be there right now.

BadMoFo said:

Right. He needs to just cut himself. And that Pioli guy.

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Sure, Belichick and Pioli never make mistakes, so anyone criticizing any player on the roster has to be a jerk.

I'm just wondering do you folks still think Doug Gabriel, Donald Hayes, Monty Beisel, and Duane Starks are good or at least decent players? If you don't, when did you change your mind, the day Belichick cut them from the team?

Cut Cassell now he gets picked up by the jets and gives them the playbook , before they cut him next week. Cut him next week and they have to sign him to the roster.

Besides, if Gutierrez or O'Connel gets injured against the Giants, Cassel is the best option for 3rd QB.


Regarding Jackson - suppose the unthinkable happens. No, not brady, the *other* unthinkable - a serious injury to Moss. Who becomes the #1 receiver? Welker? We don't have a good slot receiver to replace him. Gaffney? OK, but then you need to backfill the 3rd receiver position with either Jackson, Washington, Jones, or Aiken. Maybe a Slater or Ventrone follout the #5 spot.

Face it - Jackson is going no where. We all may as well support him in not only his bid to make the team, but to leverage his athletic talent and lock down the the #4 or #5 receiver / KR role.

Furthermore, if he's even partially succesfull at his from our perspective (i.e. , what we can see when we watch the game), do not be surprised when he lines up to Brady's far left if Moss has to come out of the game.

if anyone honestly thinks Jackson is getting cut....

D-cleater said:

Cut Cassell now he gets picked up by the jets and gives them the playbook , before they cut him next week. Cut him next week and they have to sign him to the roster.

Besides, if Gutierrez or O'Connel gets injured against the Giants, Cassel is the best option for 3rd QB.


Regarding Jackson - suppose the unthinkable happens. No, not brady, the *other* unthinkable - a serious injury to Moss. Who becomes the #1 receiver? Welker? We don't have a good slot receiver to replace him. Gaffney? OK, but then you need to backfill the 3rd receiver position with either Jackson, Washington, Jones, or Aiken. Maybe a Slater or Ventrone follout the #5 spot.

Face it - Jackson is going no where. We all may as well support him in not only his bid to make the team, but to leverage his athletic talent and lock down the the #4 or #5 receiver / KR role.

Furthermore, if he's even partially succesfull at his from our perspective (i.e. , what we can see when we watch the game), do not be surprised when he lines up to Brady's far left if Moss has to come out of the game.

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One of the biggest uphill battles Chad faces still is his inability to backup Moss... Someone else here suggested the number of reps he got in pre season was indicative of his having a place on the roster. Funny how that doesn't work for Cassel. Jackson hasn't shown up in practice or on the field by all accounts until the tail end of the last game against somebody elses's scrubs. (Not to mention not at all in the return game unless you count the night he did almost as good as Troy Brown on the worst night of his career....) Ditto for Gutierrez... Yet they are favored by many here to be roster locks...

Cassell could have been a mercy cut today ... I was hoping he would be.

Jimke said:

Cassel will start on Thursday night and play most of the game.

He will leave the game late in the fourth quarter with the score

49 to 0 Giants. ....

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Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Haven't you noticed that
he always gets us into FG position during the first half?

Say, 49-3.

MoLewisrocks said:

One of the biggest uphill battles Chad faces still is his inability to backup Moss... Someone else here suggested the number of reps he got in pre season was indicative of his having a place on the roster. Funny how that doesn't work for Cassel. Jackson hasn't shown up in practice or on the field by all accounts until the tail end of the last game against somebody elses's scrubs. (Not to mention not at all in the return game unless you count the night he did almost as good as Troy Brown on the worst night of his career....) Ditto for Gutierrez... Yet they are favored by many here to be roster locks...

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True, I just look back at Bethel Johnson... 2nd round pick who would tease us with flashes of brilliance and then disappear for the next 8 games. He lasted three mostly healthy years. Chad has not had one healthy year. I'm not defending him, and my expectations at this point are low, but I do expect that he makes the final roster. I just don't see him getting cut in favor of Jones or Aiken. If buy into the 5th receiver also needing KR or PR skills, then Slater is a good candidate to replace Jackson, but Slater doesn't seem to be taking many reps on offense ( at least to my knowledge?)

BRiZ said:

if anyone honestly thinks Jackson is getting cut....

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Some people on here have been calling him a bust since he first started missing time as a rookie with injury , and others called him a bust after the ACL injury. So, I wouldn't be to shocked over those same people wanting to get rid of him.

However, I do agree with you, Jackson's not going to be among the final cuts, and he should get at least most of this season to prove himself. Some fans on here might cry in their soup over it though, as they almost seem to actually dislike the guy for some reason.

sebman2112 said:

Some people on here have been calling him a bust since he first started missing time as a rookie with injury , and others called him a bust after the ACL injury. So, I wouldn't be to shocked over those same people wanting to get rid of him.

However, I do agree with you, Jackson's not going to be among the final cuts, and he should get at least most of this season to prove himself. Some fans on here might cry in their soup over it though, as they almost seem to actually dislike the guy for some reason.

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The question for him is whether or not he earned the roster spot or his draft position dictated another opportunity. He has'nt look very good this pre season, but in fairness to him the offense has been putrid , You can pretty much blame that on whichever RG happened to be in at the time.

alvinnf said:

The question for him is whether or not he earned the roster spot or his draft position dictated another opportunity. He has'nt look very good this pre season, but in fairness to him the offense has been putrid , You can pretty much blame that on whichever RG happened to be in at the time.

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Whether Jackson (or any other player) is cut is a function of his on field play, his off field smarts and effort, and, last, but not least, his position in the draft. Jackson is likely to stick one more year because he was a second rounder. This results in a halo effect. If he had been a fifth or sixth round pick and had the same on field results, he'd for certain be a goner. What this means for Cassell is that he doesn't make this year's roster unless he puts up a 90+ QB rating against the Giants, and even that may not save him.

NormZauchin said:

Whether Jackson (or any other player) is cut is a function of his on field play, his off field smarts and effort, and, last, but not least, his position in the draft. Jackson is likely to stick one more year because he was a second rounder. This results in a halo effect. If he had been a fifth or sixth round pick and had the same on field results, he'd for certain be a goner. What this means for Cassell is that he doesn't make this year's roster unless he puts up a 90+ QB rating against the Giants, and even that may not save him.

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Not sure if it is the "halo effect" of his draft position, or the "halo effect" of the once-in-awhile gorgeous plays that make you remember why the Pats took him so high. He may be a stinker on most plays, but that one TD reception, where he seemed to make an impossible catch, would make anyone pause about cutting him, particularly where there is no one behind him who has made any such spectacular plays, and that Pats need a 4th receiver. Cassel on the other hand, has made no such gorgeous play during the preseason, and there is a guy behind him that has out-performed him, so he is more likely to go than Chad Jackson. Who else said, "the Bethel Johnson effect?"

i think they are both busts, but Cassel is looking more like the odd man out to me.

MoLewisrocks said:

One of the biggest uphill battles Chad faces still is his inability to backup Moss... Someone else here suggested the number of reps he got in pre season was indicative of his having a place on the roster. Funny how that doesn't work for Cassel. Jackson hasn't shown up in practice or on the field by all accounts until the tail end of the last game against somebody elses's scrubs. (Not to mention not at all in the return game unless you count the night he did almost as good as Troy Brown on the worst night of his career....) Ditto for Gutierrez... Yet they are favored by many here to be roster locks...

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Although I don't think when a player plays neccessarily means he has a better or worse shot at making the team, I think Cassel and Jackon are in two completely different situations. Reche Caldwell last year played ahead of Kelly Washington for most of the preseason and Washington struggled most of training camp too.

But Cassel is going into his fourth season and third as Brady's #2 QB and seems to have regressed. He doesn't have injuries to fall back on as an excuse and he seems to be worse at decision making now than in his second year. Also, it is his last year with the Pats anyway because either he will either be good enough to want to try to find a spot where he could compete for playing time in free agency next season or the Pats won't want to resign him because he isn't good enough.

Jackson has been a disapointment, but this is his first training camp and preseason of his career and he is coming off of a major injury. He gets the leeway (whether if you think it is fair or not) to try to rehabilitate his career.

If Cassel hadn't played miserably in every opportunity over the last two years or Jackson is where he is today and didn't blow out his ACL in the AFC Championship game against the Colts, then maybe you could compare the two. But both are in two very different situations.

Rob0729 said:

Although I don't think when a player plays neccessarily means he has a better or worse shot at making the team, I think Cassel and Jackon are in two completely different situations. Reche Caldwell last year played ahead of Kelly Washington for most of the preseason and Washington struggled most of training camp too

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Two minor notes: Caldwell was in competition more with Gaffney than Washington and was likely a cap casualty. Washington played well in preseason, making a number of decent catches, but was clearly behind Gaffney and Caldwell in terms of playing later in the games. Moss, of course, didn't play. For some reason, I have no recollection of Welker in the preseason, perhaps because I can't keep more than 117 catches in my head for any one receiver.

You gotta wonder if Cassel sticks just for the simple reason that he would have intimate knowledge of the Offensive playbook. I can just imagine that Mangini is salivating at the opportunity to sign him for that reason only.

Rob0729 said:

Although I don't think when a player plays neccessarily means he has a better or worse shot at making the team, I think Cassel and Jackon are in two completely different situations. Reche Caldwell last year played ahead of Kelly Washington for most of the preseason and Washington struggled most of training camp too.

But Cassel is going into his fourth season and third as Brady's #2 QB and seems to have regressed. He doesn't have injuries to fall back on as an excuse and he seems to be worse at decision making now than in his second year. Also, it is his last year with the Pats anyway because either he will either be good enough to want to try to find a spot where he could compete for playing time in free agency next season or the Pats won't want to resign him because he isn't good enough.

Jackson has been a disapointment, but this is his first training camp and preseason of his career and he is coming off of a major injury. He gets the leeway (whether if you think it is fair or not) to try to rehabilitate his career.

If Cassel hadn't played miserably in every opportunity over the last two years or Jackson is where he is today and didn't blow out his ACL in the AFC Championship game against the Colts, then maybe you could compare the two. But both are in two very different situations.

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Washington made the roster when Caldwell didn't because he was also competing for a ST slot. Chad doesn't seen to be in the mix on ST, either. I wish he would turn it all around - just haven't seen any indication to date he is any more than another Bethel - minus the return game... Just a dynamic returner would have helped us out immensely last February... I have a feeling the heartfelt attitude adjustment isn't genuinely forthcoming. He was quite willing to talk this week about how he's modeling his self after Randy, but the week before not a peep after his sloppy play and little barking display on the field when the QB corrected his play. Next season is Jackson's contract season, maybe he'll hold out...

I know it's fashionable to claim Cassel has regressed. I just don't know a)what folks believe they can base that assessment on given his rather unique (aside from Sorgi) circumstances or b)how dumb they think BB must be to have retained him this far if he actually was regressing... A lot more goes into coaching assessments than the limited minutes any of these backups spend on the field in actual game conditions. Otherwise Bam Childress would probably still be here...

D-cleater said:

Cut Cassell now he gets picked up by the jets and gives them the playbook , before they cut him next week. Cut him next week and they have to sign him to the roster.
PWP: Absolutely. That goes for many such players. Teams usually won't waste a real 53 roster spot for a Vulcan mind meld on the opposing playbook.

Besides, if Gutierrez or O'Connel gets injured against the Giants, Cassel is the best option for 3rd QB.
PWP: Also true. It would have been foolish for BB to have cut Cassel early as the all emotion, no reason fanboys would like.

Regarding Jackson - suppose the unthinkable happens. No, not brady, the *other* unthinkable - a serious injury to Moss. Who becomes the #1 receiver? Welker? We don't have a good slot receiver to replace him. Gaffney? OK, but then you need to backfill the 3rd receiver position with either Jackson, Washington, Jones, or Aiken. Maybe a Slater or Ventrone follout the #5 spot.

Face it - Jackson is going no where. We all may as well support him in not only his bid to make the team, but to leverage his athletic talent and lock down the the #4 or #5 receiver / KR role.

PWP: He's had all camp to lock down the #4 WR role and has performed no better than JAGs. As to ST role, his lack of performance as a punt returner makes him not very valuable to the team. #4 or 5 WRs are supposed to be STRONG ST contributors. I'm mystified why the coaches didn't push him as a KR guy, a ST position more suited to his skills. He's not a quick juke move type of guy like PRs Troy or Welker; he's a fast strong long strider who should be able to hit the kick return corridor with speed and momentum. It's always hard to understand coaching decisions at the micro level.

Furthermore, if he's even partially succesfull at his from our perspective (i.e. , what we can see when we watch the game), do not be surprised when he lines up to Brady's far left if Moss has to come out of the game.

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I would be completely shocked.