Manny to FLA, Hermida to PIT, Bay to BoSox

Sources say a Manny Ramirez deal to the Marlins is "50-50." However, another surprise move already was made on baseball's deadline day: Ken Griffey Jr. agreed to a White Sox deal - ESPN.com

i'm hopping this trade falls through.. I can live with manny being manny

I'm not sure where I stand with the whole Manny thing. This has happened in the past and they've worked it out. The only thing that is different is Manny is using the press quite a bit to force this trade and his remarks were quite harsh,possibly unrepairable as far as the front office is concerened.

What sucks is instead of exploring trades which would help this team we are stuck trying to salvage Manny's production which is pretty hard to do. Even if we get Jason Bay,it doesn't truly equal out to Manny,but atleast it is somewhat compareable.

As far as Hanley Ramirez I'd like him back too. I wonder if the Marlins would dump salary and take Masterson and Lowrie for him. Cut Pitt out of the equation, sit Manny until he wants to play again and call it a day. Armchair GM is soooo easy..............

Real World said:

First of all they won't do that

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Meaningless.

and second, his overall stats aren't worthy of a Cy Young. He's 10-8 with an ERA over 3. When Rick Sutcliffe got traded during the season and won the CY Young in the NL, he made 20 starts, and went 16-1, with a sub 3 ERA. There wasn't a pitcher who had more dominant stats than him. Matter of fact, the writers excluded the 10 or so starts he made in the AL, since his ERA there was over 5. In the NL this year, there are at least 6 pitchers with a superior amount of wins over CC, who have a sub 3 ERA. CC has ZERO chance.

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Saying he has "ZERO chance" is fairly stupid. He has a 3.33 ERA and 10 wins, and as I pointed out earlier is a sub-3 pitcher in September. At this point in the year last year he was 13-6 with an ERA close to 4.00 before he went on to win the cy young. And why did he win the cy young? Because he was filthy down the stretch and lead the Indians to the postseason. That's what writers look at and that's exactly what he's poised to do for the Brewers. Comparing him to Rick Sutcliffe is pointless; different era, different set of pitchers.

The current NL pitchers ahead of him right now are:

Dan Haren - 2.62 ERA with 11 wins. (one more than Sabathia). If Arizona doesn't make an improvement by 4 today they aren't going to be anything special down the stretch and Haren has a 4.21 and 4.27 ERA historically in August and September respectively.

Brandon Webb - 14 wins, 3.14 ERA. Webb is probably the most legit challenge for Sabathia, but again I don't like Arizona from here on out and Webb also has a ERA of about 3.26 historically in August and September.

Cole Hamels - 9-6 with a 3.27 ERA (only a shade better than Sabathia). The Phillies are going nowhere in a division race that's tiht only because of collective mediocrity. He got absolutely shelled in his last outing, giving up 9 runs. Because he's so young and his sample size so small I won't include his historical ERA from August and September as there's no statistical correlation you could accurately draw from it.

Ryan Dempster - 12 wins (2 more than CC) with a 2.90 ERA. Along with Webb, he's a legit contender because he's on the best team in the NL. But historically he has a 4.81 ERA from here on out, has never performed like he has this year and frankly I just don't think he's that great of a pitcher.

Tim Lincecum - 11 wins, 2.78 ERA. He's not winning the Cy Young in his rookie season because he's on a horrendous team and will be on a restrictive pitch count from here on out. He may be the best pitcher in baseball though.

Edinson Volquez - 13 wins, 2.76 ERA 1.30 WHIP. He's poised to come crashing back down to earth as he's only a rookie and if Dusty Baker goes Kerry Wood on him his arm will most likely fall off by the end of the year if there's no pitch count. He's another rookie on a terrible team like Lincecum, but nowhere near as good.

So there you have it. 6 pitchers in the NL with better numbers so far than Sabathia. If you think the writers are going to do anything but count Sabathia's first half numbers as a plus (better league) then you're delusional. You cans see that there's no one in the NL setting the world on fire right now who isn't performing above their head on a ****ty team. Haren and Webb are probably the two biggest contenders other than CC to keep up their current pace, but CC will improve consistently from here on out, and he's the best candidate to get it out of the whole group. He's been better than Johan, Peavy, Harden and Zambrano, two of which have injury issues.

Wildo7 said:

Meaningless.



Saying he has "ZERO chance" is fairly stupid. He has a 3.33 ERA and 10 wins, and as I pointed out earlier is a sub-3 pitcher in September. At this point in the year last year he was 13-6 with an ERA close to 4.00 before he went on to win the cy young. And why did he win the cy young? Because he was filthy down the stretch and lead the Indians to the postseason. That's what writers look at and that's exactly what he's poised to do for the Brewers. Comparing him to Rick Sutcliffe is pointless; different era, different set of pitchers.

The current NL pitchers ahead of him right now are:

Dan Haren - 2.62 ERA with 11 wins. (one more than Sabathia). If Arizona doesn't make an improvement by 4 today they aren't going to be anything special down the stretch and Haren has a 4.21 and 4.27 ERA historically in August and September respectively.

Brandon Webb - 14 wins, 3.14 ERA. Webb is probably the most legit challenge for Sabathia, but again I don't like Arizona from here on out and Webb also has a ERA of about 3.26 historically in August and September.

Cole Hamels - 9-6 with a 3.27 ERA (only a shade better than Sabathia). The Phillies are going nowhere in a division race that's tiht only because of collective mediocrity. He got absolutely shelled in his last outing, giving up 9 runs. Because he's so young and his sample size so small I won't include his historical ERA from August and September as there's no statistical correlation you could accurately draw from it.

Ryan Dempster - 12 wins (2 more than CC) with a 2.90 ERA. Along with Webb, he's a legit contender because he's on the best team in the NL. But historically he has a 4.81 ERA from here on out, has never performed like he has this year and frankly I just don't think he's that great of a pitcher.

Tim Lincecum - 11 wins, 2.78 ERA. He's not winning the Cy Young in his rookie season because he's on a horrendous team and will be on a restrictive pitch count from here on out. He may be the best pitcher in baseball though.

Edinson Volquez - 13 wins, 2.76 ERA 1.30 WHIP. He's poised to come crashing back down to earth as he's only a rookie and if Dusty Baker goes Kerry Wood on him his arm will most likely fall off by the end of the year if there's no pitch count. He's another rookie on a terrible team like Lincecum, but nowhere near as good.

So there you have it. 6 pitchers in the NL with better numbers so far than Sabathia. If you think the writers are going to do anything but count Sabathia's first half numbers as a plus (better league) then you're delusional. You cans see that there's no one in the NL setting the world on fire right now who isn't performing above their head on a ****ty team. Haren and Webb are probably the two biggest contenders other than CC to keep up their current pace, but CC will improve consistently from here on out, and he's the best candidate to get it out of the whole group. He's been better than Johan, Peavy, Harden and Zambrano, two of which have injury issues.

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CC has virtually ZERO chance of winning the NL Cy Young. Get that through your thick skull. They will not combine his numbers from two different leagues. There is an AL Cy award, and an NL Cy award for a reason. That means stats from one league don't count toward an award in another. If he goes 16-1 with a microscopic ERA (like Sutcliffe!), and has a better year in the NL than anyone else, then he might have a chance, but considering the fact that there are 5 pitchers in the NL with a chance for 20 wins, and a sub 3 ERA, I highly doubt it.

CC on here anywhere?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/cy

Its quiet...almost too quiet.

Mossed81 said:

God I wish we could get Hanley Ramirez back. That will never happen, unfortunately. I sometimes wonder if getting Beckett and Lowell for him was worth it. I guess the answer is yes, but it still hurts to lose the greatest prospect to ever come out of our system.

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and in four years you'll probably say the same thing with Jefferson and the Celtics.
The Red Sox do not win the last years World Series without them.

Deals off. Now lets get focused and win some games.

JAYHAWKS34 said:

One of the most dominating pitchers today and should have been Cy Young last year, and a world series MVP.. ya I think that trade was decent

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What have you done for me lately? He ain't looking so great this year, amigo. And he looked like chit in 2006 as well. I guess he's a stud every other year.

Mossed81 said:

What have you done for me lately? He ain't looking so great this year, amigo. And he looked like chit in 2006 as well. I guess he's a stud every other year.

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So I’m assuming we can just forget that they won us a world series
And the whole “what have you done for me lately” remark gets thrown out the window with a world series, they receive a grace period

NESN is reporting right now that "A deal has gone down with Manny Ramirez"involving the Dogers and Pirates.

Real World said:

CC has virtually ZERO chance of winning the NL Cy Young. Get that through your thick skull. They will not combine his numbers from two different leagues. There is an AL Cy award, and an NL Cy award for a reason. That means stats from one league don't count toward an award in another. If he goes 16-1 with a microscopic ERA (like Sutcliffe!), and has a better year in the NL than anyone else, then he might have a chance, but considering the fact that there are 5 pitchers in the NL with a chance for 20 wins, and a sub 3 ERA, I highly doubt it.

CC on here anywhere?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/cy

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The fact that you have nothing to back up your useless rant, as usual, is very telling. An ESPN speculation? Wow, well done.

Manny to LAD, Bay to Sox, Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris to PIT, Hansen and Moss to PIT

Wildo7 said:

The fact that you have nothing to back up your useless rant, as usual, is very telling. An ESPN speculation? Wow, well done.

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I’d have to agree with realworld, that just doesn’t make any sense your numbers are/should be based on the league that you pitch in

Wildo7 said:

The fact that you have nothing to back up your useless rant, as usual, is very telling. An ESPN speculation? Wow, well done.

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I have history backing me up.

First of all, AL stats do not count in the NL. Somehow, that's a fact you seem to not comprehend. Second, writers from NL cities vote for the NL award, while AL writers vote for the AL winner. AGAIN, the stats from one league do not count in another. So if CC goes 16-1 with a microscopic ERA, IN THE NL, like Sutcliffe, then he'll have a shot to win it. Other than that, he has ZERO chance.

Each league's award is voted on by two members of the Baseball Writers Association of America in each league city, meaning 28 ballots are cast for the American League winner, and 32 for the National League. Each places a vote for first, second, and third place among the pitchers of each league.

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Look at Sutcliffe's stats for his 1984 award. The NL stats are listed, and not his overall statistics. When Webb won the award recently with 16 wins, it was the lowest total by a starter, tying Sutcliffe in 1984. Sutcliffe won 20 games overall, but is listed as a 16 game winner for the NL award. Why? Cuz his AL stats don't matter in the NL voting.

Wildo7 said:

Because the writers vote and they'll take his AL stats into consideration as if they were NL stats all year. It'd be dumb to discount his AL stats especially since he went from the tougher league to the easier one.

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Wildo7 said:

Meaningless.



Saying he has "ZERO chance" is fairly stupid. He has a 3.33 ERA and 10 wins, and as I pointed out earlier is a sub-3 pitcher in September. At this point in the year last year he was 13-6 with an ERA close to 4.00 before he went on to win the cy young. And why did he win the cy young? Because he was filthy down the stretch and lead the Indians to the postseason. That's what writers look at and that's exactly what he's poised to do for the Brewers. Comparing him to Rick Sutcliffe is pointless; different era, different set of pitchers.

The current NL pitchers ahead of him right now are:

Dan Haren - 2.62 ERA with 11 wins. (one more than Sabathia). If Arizona doesn't make an improvement by 4 today they aren't going to be anything special down the stretch and Haren has a 4.21 and 4.27 ERA historically in August and September respectively.

Brandon Webb - 14 wins, 3.14 ERA. Webb is probably the most legit challenge for Sabathia, but again I don't like Arizona from here on out and Webb also has a ERA of about 3.26 historically in August and September.

Cole Hamels - 9-6 with a 3.27 ERA (only a shade better than Sabathia). The Phillies are going nowhere in a division race that's tiht only because of collective mediocrity. He got absolutely shelled in his last outing, giving up 9 runs. Because he's so young and his sample size so small I won't include his historical ERA from August and September as there's no statistical correlation you could accurately draw from it.

Ryan Dempster - 12 wins (2 more than CC) with a 2.90 ERA. Along with Webb, he's a legit contender because he's on the best team in the NL. But historically he has a 4.81 ERA from here on out, has never performed like he has this year and frankly I just don't think he's that great of a pitcher.

Tim Lincecum - 11 wins, 2.78 ERA. He's not winning the Cy Young in his rookie season because he's on a horrendous team and will be on a restrictive pitch count from here on out. He may be the best pitcher in baseball though.

Edinson Volquez - 13 wins, 2.76 ERA 1.30 WHIP. He's poised to come crashing back down to earth as he's only a rookie and if Dusty Baker goes Kerry Wood on him his arm will most likely fall off by the end of the year if there's no pitch count. He's another rookie on a terrible team like Lincecum, but nowhere near as good.

So there you have it. 6 pitchers in the NL with better numbers so far than Sabathia. If you think the writers are going to do anything but count Sabathia's first half numbers as a plus (better league) then you're delusional. You cans see that there's no one in the NL setting the world on fire right now who isn't performing above their head on a ****ty team. Haren and Webb are probably the two biggest contenders other than CC to keep up their current pace, but CC will improve consistently from here on out, and he's the best candidate to get it out of the whole group. He's been better than Johan, Peavy, Harden and Zambrano, two of which have injury issues.

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Wildo7 said:

The fact that you have nothing to back up your useless rant, as usual, is very telling. An ESPN speculation? Wow, well done.

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I (don't really ) hate to say I told so, but....

Lincecum wins NL Cy Young, Sabathia finishes 5th

Associated Press

1:57 PM CST, November 11, 2008

MILWAUKEE - CC Sabathia had a dominant half-season for the Milwaukee Brewers but it wasn't enough to earn him the NL Cy Young award.

Pitching's highest honor went Tuesday to Tim Lincecum, the 24-year-old ace of the San Francisco Giants.

Sabathia came to Milwaukee in a midseason trade with Cleveland. He went 11-2 with a 1.65 ERA for the Brewers, throwing seven complete games in 17 starts.

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Real World said:

I (don't really ) hate to say I told so, but....

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I was waiting for this

two things:

I never said he was definitely going to win, I said he could win if he continued to dominate, he faded down the stretch.

I didn't think precedent mattered since this happens so rarely that a dominant pitcher moves half way through the season.

You were right, but if he had dominated and Linceceum had faded, which he didn't, I still think it would have been very close and probably gone to CC.

It looks like the Yankees are going to land this whale (pun intended), so have fun with him next year falling apart in the playoffs

Wildo7 said:

I was waiting for this

two things:

I never said he was definitely going to win, I said he could win if he continued to dominate, he faded down the stretch.

I didn't think precedent mattered since this happens so rarely that a dominant pitcher moves half way through the season.

You were right, but if he had dominated and Linceceum had faded, which he didn't, I still think it would have been very close and probably gone to CC.

It looks like the Yankees are going to land this whale (pun intended), so have fun with him next year falling apart in the playoffs

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Well, the real point I wanted to make was that his AL stats do not count in the NL Cy Young voting. CC was incredible for the Brewers though, no matter how we slice it.

I'm not sure the Yankees are a lock to sign him. He really wants to play on the west coast from some rumor mill stuff I've been reading. I think two teams in the AL have a shot at him, and no one else. Those two are the Yankees, and the Angels. The Yankees cuz he'll get the most money from them, and has told some people he'd like to pitch for them (his bud Jimmy Rollins said as much). I read that he's building a mansion on the west coast somewhere, so as a Yankees fan that's not great news. My guess is it will come down to the Angels, Dodgers, or Yankees. The Brewers don't have the money to go 6 years. I've heard the Yankees could be willing to offer 6 years, and $150-180 million. I think that's crazy, but it's not my money. CC is a great pitcher, but I question his big game make up.

*I don't see the Redsox in the mix. I bet they inquire to drive the price up, but in the end, I don't see them forking over $150 million for a pitcher. they could easily do it if they wanted to, but they're going to use their resources elsewhere I think.

I'm interested to see what the starting rotation for the Yanks is going to be. Right now they have Wang and....no one. They just sold Rasner to a Japanese team.

Are they really going to roll a rotation of Chamberlain/Hughes/Kennedy out there? Wang is a head case and none of the other three can really be expected to pitch an entire season.

bmf31c said:

I'm interested to see what the starting rotation for the Yanks is going to be. Right now they have Wang and....no one. They just sold Rasner to a Japanese team.

Are they really going to roll a rotation of Chamberlain/Hughes/Kennedy out there? Wang is a head case and none of the other three can really be expected to pitch an entire season.

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Rasner is a 4A pitcher who didn't have a place in their plans. He's a long reliever, spot starter at best. If the season started today, they'd have Wang, Pettitte (he's said he wants to come back already), Chamberlain, hughes, Kennedy. Mussina could be another, as he'll make his decision this week. That's why the Yankees are aiming to sign two starters from free agency. Worse case they trade for Peavy, which I hope does not happen. Peavy's splits are terrible. Signing Sabathia is really critical for the Yankees.