Camp Battles: TE

Where is Kyle?????????

dapatshouldawon said:

Where is Kyle?????????

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Cut.

http://www.patriots.com/news/index.cfm?ac=latestnewsdetail&pcid=48&pid=31101

I completly forgot......

JoeSixPat said:

I was really surprised not to see them take a even a blocking TE late in the draft or among the UDFAs.

I thought given the fact that they had signed Kyle Brady in that capacity, and the fact that they always used Daniel Graham as primarilly a blocker meant that, (snip)

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They used Daniel Graham as a blocker because he couldn't run routes or catch.

Dragda said:

They used Daniel Graham as a blocker because he couldn't run routes or catch.

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The Hands of Stone stump Graham of the 1st 2 years was not the Graham of his last several Pats seasons. He worked hard to become a better than avg pass catching TE. Unfortunately for his own wishes and Denver's O, he's just not a top echelon pass catching TE.

Metaphors said:

So I'll volley back to you...are you implying that Spach had a significant impact in Maroney's success?

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Actually, a blocking TE made a big difference. We used some OL guy as a block TE which was a bad as never was fast enough to cross the line for a down field block.

And what about Stupar? Is he on the team, or he was cut?

KevinFaulk-33 said:

And what about Stupar? Is he on the team, or he was cut?

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That was my bad. He is on the list I am working from but I left him on the "Battling for ST" list with Spach in the post. I will correct in the next thread and he will be included when we get to special teams. Thanks for the find.

As with other positions, one of the players will be cut, with Watson being the only safe one. Thomas is coming back from injuries. Spach and Pollard complete the list of. All have their pluses and minuses. We'll see in camp

mgteich said:

As with other positions, one of the players will be cut, with Watson being the only safe one. Thomas is coming back from injuries. Spach and Pollard complete the list of. All have their pluses and minuses. We'll see in camp

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Yeah, Thomas is coming back from injuries, but he played in almost every game his rookie season (even when he wasn't catching passes, he was playing on STs). I can't imagine a healthy Thomas not making the team (I'm not joking when I say I think Moss/Welker/Faulk/Thomas/Jackson could be an absolutely frightening combo to defend on third downs).

ctpatsfan77 said:

Yeah, Thomas is coming back from injuries, but he played in almost every game his rookie season (even when he wasn't catching passes, he was playing on STs). I can't imagine a healthy Thomas not making the team (I'm not joking when I say I think Moss/Welker/Faulk/Thomas/Jackson could be an absolutely frightening combo to defend on third downs).

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I am not joking when I say Moss/Welker/Faulk/Signbabybrady/Jackson could be an absolutley frightning combo to defend. Well I guess I am joking but you see my point.

I think that health is paramount to what we do at TE for this upcoming season. I do believe BB will scout other teams and will spend a lot of time scanning the waiver wire for TE's this fall.

One of the UDFA's TEs got some ink this summer with his outstanding catches at mini camp. If he has any success this fall in pads, he could steal a roster spot.

PS: Either our TE's are healthier than we know or the 2008 TE draft class was extremely weak for BB not to grab one.

signbabybrady said:

I am not joking when I say Moss/Welker/Faulk/Signbabybrady/Jackson could be an absolutley frightning combo to defend. Well I guess I am joking but you see my point.

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At UT, Thomas was Young's binky. You don't become a binky for a **** QB without having the ability to find holes and get open (and he showed that ability at least for one game in '06). He also has soft hands and hangs onto the ball. Those are two things that are tremendously important on third down and even more so because they are exactly what you want from a player who is on the field with Welker, Moss and Faulk (who all collectively possess those abilities).

I do think it's hilarious how people are (still) in love with Dave Thomas but have completely given up on Chad Jackson when the two are pretty much in the exact same boat. Or people who think that Kelley Washington (a man with loads of potential that has equated to very little offensive production) is more likely to earn playing time than Jackson (their careers have been marred by the same problems and Washington is six years older).

There's a lot of irrationality regarding Chad Jackson on this site, good and bad.

bradmahn said:

I do think it's hilarious how people are (still) in love with Dave Thomas but have completely given up on Chad Jackson when the two are pretty much in the exact same boat. Or people who think that Kelley Washington (a man with loads of potential that has equated to very little offensive production) is more likely to earn playing time than Jackson (their careers have been marred by the same problems and Washington is six years older).

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To be fair, they're in the same boat through more-or-less mirror-image courses. Jackson was injured for a good portion of his rookie season, and was stuck behind an all-world receiving corps last year. Thomas was stuck trying to earn playing time behind Graham and Watson in '06, and was injured in '07.

That said, if both of them live up to their potential, opposing Ds might wish they could play the 2007 Pats.

bradmahn said:

At UT, Thomas was Young's binky. You don't become a binky for a **** QB without having the ability to find holes and get open (and he showed that ability at least for one game in '06). He also has soft hands and hangs onto the ball. Those are two things that are tremendously important on third down and even more so because they are exactly what you want from a player who is on the field with Welker, Moss and Faulk (who all collectively possess those abilities).

I do think it's hilarious how people are (still) in love with Dave Thomas but have completely given up on Chad Jackson when the two are pretty much in the exact same boat. Or people who think that Kelley Washington (a man with loads of potential that has equated to very little offensive production) is more likely to earn playing time than Jackson (their careers have been marred by the same problems and Washington is six years older).

There's a lot of irrationality regarding Chad Jackson on this site, good and bad.

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While Thomas seems to have shown a lot more when healthy at TE and ST's just that he seems to get it - You are 100% correct sir.Thomas had 12 catches for 159 yeards that season versus Chad Jackson's 12 catches for 152 yards - you make a good point.

I'll feel a lot better about TE & WR if both these guys realize their true potential in year three of their careers that's for sure. I love our players at TE and WR - I just think we are a hammy or two away from big trouble. NEED these guys.

In my opinion, TE is the position on the roster most in need of an addition before the regular season begins. This team needs a nasty blocking TE to give it a physical running game that I felt it lacked last year. We were a little too much finesse and not enough smashmouth and the job the Oline did run blocking in the Super Bowl was disgraceful. It's possible that simply keeping Spach active and going to the 3 TE lineup would have been the cure in that game.

I know Jason Dunn is like 36 years old, but he was an amazing blocking TE for the Chiefs for many years and might have one more year left in his tank. I certainly think the chances of Dunn helping in a blocking role are greater than those of Pollard helping in a receiving role.

Thomas and Chad Jackson are keys to this year in my mind and their ability to contribute seems to be a hot topic. Even thought they play different positions, I feel like the Patriots will be great if just one of them becomes a significant contributor. If Jackson can stretch the field opposite Moss, it helps the offense immensely. If Thomas can work the deep seam, he can prevent the safety from cheating to Moss's side at the snap, which helps the offense just as much, just in a slightly different way.

DocE said:

In my opinion, TE is the position on the roster most in need of an addition before the regular season begins. This team needs a nasty blocking TE to give it a physical running game that I felt it lacked last year.

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Yet you forget every time we went into 3 TE formation with Heath as the blocking FB maroney went over 100 yrds.

I think fans must also understand that once you are after the top 2 options you need that player to fill multiple roles to give you flexiablity.you cannot dress 3 TE and 5 WR in game day.that is where we need cross skillset.

watson/thomas taking the top spot and say spach who did some good blocking last year we need 2 multi role players. Heath is an option but typically in 3 TE set he is the FB also last year kelly washington who is the same size as chad jackson lined up as a TE in running downs and give a real option.

satz said:

Yet you forget every time we went into 3 TE formation with Heath as the blocking FB maroney went over 100 yrds.

I think fans must also understand that once you are after the top 2 options you need that player to fill multiple roles to give you flexiablity.you cannot dress 3 TE and 5 WR in game day.that is where we need cross skillset.

watson/thomas taking the top spot and say spach who did some good blocking last year we need 2 multi role players. Heath is an option but typically in 3 TE set he is the FB also last year kelly washington who is the same size as chad jackson lined up as a TE in running downs and give a real option.

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This is a critical point that I think a lot of us forget. Once you're past the exceptional players that lock down a position, you're into guys who have to qualify based on four criteria:
a) Situational Play. Probably the best way to make the team is to be good enough to get on the field as a nickelback or situational rusher. But that's so close to a starting position that these guys are usually a lock to make the team. Like Jarvis Green.
b) Special teams skills. If they don't have that, they'll never be on the 45, so they're essentially idle backups. For certain body types (WR, CB, TE, LB), the backup player must excel at STs. Washington is a good example.
c) Flexibility. Why carry a backup for only one position? Guys like Jackson and Washington and Evans, who are big enough to block and can also catch and run, can make their case this way. Same for Hochstein, who can play center or guard.
d) Position Play. They have to at least be legitimate competitors for the starting role. You don't want to cringe if, say, Evans had to take half the snaps at RB, with Faulk taking the other half. Well, maybe a little.

Sometimes we put too much emphasis on the battle for best positional player when the other criteria might very well be more important.

Both Thomas and Watson have had injury probs. Carrying just these 2 makes me a little nervous.

Everything was good until you said Heath Evans see half the snaps... Ouch.

I liked Thomas' potential when we drafted him, but he still has a lot to prove before we can pencil him in as a 'lock' for TE. I hope he shows us something in training camp, because a 'good hands' tight end can always help out an offense.

PatsFan37 said:

d) Position Play. They have to at least be legitimate competitors for the starting role. You don't want to cringe if, say, Evans had to take half the snaps at RB, with Faulk taking the other half. Well, maybe a little.

Sometimes we put too much emphasis on the battle for best positional player when the other criteria might very well be more important.

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