Linebackers Are NOT a weakness

1 injury to your four starters and where are you?

If PATs knew Bruschi was retiring ... maybe they should have made
more of an effort to retain the services of Zack Thomas.

The list of free agent inside linebackers:

http://www.theredzone.org/2008/freeagents/showposition.asp?Position=ILB

The list of free agent outside linebackers:

http://www.theredzone.org/2008/freeagents/showposition.asp?Position=OLB

mgteich said:

Belichick prefers veteran linebackers. We already have a pretty strong set of linebackers. I am not saying that we shouldn't pick up a veteran and a top draftee, but we aren't in terrible shape. I expect Seau back. He's in better shape than almost anyone on the team. I have confidence in pioli's ability to find a linebacker who would fit in as a backup.

STARTERS (this is a top group)
Colvin, Thomas, Seau, Vrabel
Remember, Colvin has replaced Bruschi, a major improvement.

BACKUPS
Woods, Alexander, Lua, Slaughter

SPECIAL TEAMS
Izzo

Click to expand...

First off Colvin does not replace Teddy. Secondly you are clearly to much of a homer to see that are lb core was a weakness this year. One injury with the current crop and we are screwed.

mgteich said:

STARTERS (this is a top group)
Colvin, Thomas, Seau, Vrabel

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Technically Seau is an unrestricted free agent. Second, there is no way of knowing at this time whether Seau will retire.

By my eyes, AD was very underrated last season. Played great inside up until his ankle injury against CLE. He came back and wasn't as effective for a few weeks, was moved to OLB when Colvin went down, initially struggled at OLB stopping the run, but was a force there by the playoffs (heck, if Vrabel shows up in the Super Bowl, some of Thomas pressures turn into sacks, and we win the game).

I'm very much looking forward to his second season here b/c I think - with a year under his belt and with a full season at ILB coming in 08 - he could put together the Pro Bowl difference making type season we expected.

If Bruschi retires and Seau graduates up you need to replace them with either one full time ILB who is not familiar with the system or two more rotational players who are not familiar with the system. Better hope one of Bruschi or Seau decides to play for one more season. With Colvin back they man one ILB position arguably better than anything you are going to find to replace them on the fly. Thomas was brought in to be the new brains of the ILB corps and to upgrade it's speed and athleticism. Like it or not, he's not going to play OLB except situationally/rotationally, and then only if two ILB appear/emerge who can cover both positions situationally.

This is not as bad as 2005 when both Bruschi and TJ were not there and the guys who replaced them were lost. AD has a year in the system. But it's not great either - we are down to one starting ILB pending FA moves and the draft - and no draftee is starting at ILB out of the gate in this system, so folks better hope one of Seau or Bruschi is coming back...

Belioli are obviously concerned since they have talked to just about every potential ILB who has become available. Thomas would have mitigated the concern somewhat, but they obviously didn't envision him playing an every down role or they would have topped Jerry's offer. That would lead me to believe they are looking for rotational guys, either two or one to match up with someone who returns.

And they could also use a veteran situational pass rushing OLB to also back up Vrabel and Colvin when they need a blow. When Vrabel had to come out and Woods replaced him - he couldn't secure a giftwrapped fumble. Thomas could fill that role, but only if they have sufficient depth inside that is functional in this system - and that usually means veteran depth. Maybe Lua will emerge, but it's a stretch to count on that and they need to be able to insure they don't substantially weaken one position in the process.

Linebacker is not a weakness but it is a concern.We could use more youth, speed and athleticism at the position.Tedy,Mike Vrabel and Junior aren't getting any younger and Colvin didn't stay on the field for the entire season in 2 of the last 4 years.That spells a concern to me.As for our present young guys ,none of Us know if Lua can play, and Pierre Woods had a chance to change the Super Bowl and didn't, and what We've seen of Alexander isn't great either.It's not a weakness but it can use a makeover.

I think we made a strong effort to sign Zach. He wanted to play near home.

JR4 said:

1 injury to your four starters and where are you?

If PATs knew Bruschi was retiring ... maybe they should have made
more of an effort to retain the services of Zack Thomas.

Click to expand...

ivanvamp said:

I can see your point in terms of the regular season, but in the playoffs, here's what the Pats' D did:

Jax - 20 points allowed, 22 rushes, 80 yds, 3.6 average
SD - 12 points allowed, 22 rushes, 104 yds, 4.7 average - but 2 carries for 34 yards were by Sproles in the last 1:46 of the first half, coming on draws out of the shotgun when the Pats were in dime coverage...hardly a LB issue there. Take those two runs out and it turns into 20 rushes, 70 yds, 3.5 average.
NYG - 17 points allowed, 26 rushes, 91 yds, 3.5 average

So if you remove Sproles' two carries, which had very little to do with linebacking, and you end up with a grand total of 68 rushes for 241 yds, for an average of 3.5 yards per carry.

That doesn't look like a linebacking group that got overrun at the end of the season.

Click to expand...

So the small quick backs against the aging LB corps has very little to do with linebacking?

Why not throw in Addais catch and run?

The Patriots linebackers are fine with runners and receivers that will stand there so they can tackle them.

It's the guys that evade them that hurt.

I agree with most here that linebacking is a concern, but not an immediate crisis. I think we are all looking to bring in a veteran and a top draft choice. I do think that patriot fans are the stongest critics of this unit and unreasonably so. Our starters are among the best in the business. Thomas will be an anchor at ILB for many years.

We were a circus catch away from winning the superbowl! The defense played well all year, as did the linebacking corps (including the SB), much of the year without Colvin.
--------------------------

I think that the key are the youngsters we have. We DO have the youth. If the three that we have chosen as backups are useless at the position, then indeed we do need to being in 2 or 3 or 4 veterans and draftees. We can have a couple of ST LB's on the team, but not four. Generally we draft for the next year (especially in the fornt seven). SO there is surely the need, since Seau will need to be replaced.

Personally, I think one of the keys to the offseason is whether we extend Colvin. If not a need is created.

RayClay said:

So the small quick backs against the aging LB corps has very little to do with linebacking?

Why not throw in Addais catch and run?

The Patriots linebackers are fine with runners and receivers that will stand there so they can tackle them.

It's the guys that evade them that hurt.

Click to expand...

Here's the quote I was responding to: "Endurance is another concern also especially toward the end of the season our LB's looked a little worn out especially against the run."

I was simply pointing out that in the last 3 games of a very long and grueling season, the Pats run defense was pretty solid. They have always had problems (it seems) with quicker running backs. That's because they're not a particularly fast group of linebackers. But that was true of Bruschi, Ted Johnson, Roman Phifer, etc., even before they got old. They're just not that fast. All I was saying was that I don't think they got "worn out" at the end, or if they did, it didn't show up in the stats during the playoffs.

ATippett56 said:

The linebacker depth will need to come through the NFL draft. Aside from someone like a Victor Hobson, I don't see much linebacker talent in free agency with experience in the 3-4 defense. Personally, it's time for Bruschi to retire while Seau could provide valuable depth as a backup.

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Did I miss where Hobson has been an ILB for the Jets? He's only played OLB to my knowledge.

JR4 said:

1 injury to your four starters and where are you?

If PATs knew Bruschi was retiring ... maybe they should have made
more of an effort to retain the services of Zack Thomas.

Click to expand...

Jesus.. What more of an effort do you WANT? They gave him the same offer they gave Seau last year.

The Cowboys "trumped" it by giving Thomas all the bonus money up front, but its the same amount of money.

ATippett56 said:

The list of free agent inside linebackers:

http://www.theredzone.org/2008/freeagents/showposition.asp?Position=ILB

The list of free agent outside linebackers:

http://www.theredzone.org/2008/freeagents/showposition.asp?Position=OLB

Click to expand...

Of that list, I like Chaun Thomp and Donterrius Thomas for ILB. For OLB, I like Danny Clark, Clark Haggans, and Victor Hobson. for DE to OLB converts, Carlos Pace has been mentioned. Jared Allen (unless he was franchised and I missed it) could be intriguing.

DaBruinz said:

Jared Allen (unless he was franchised and I missed it) could be intriguing.

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He was franchised. Chances are he might be too drunk to know it but he was.

danny88 said:

First off Colvin does not replace Teddy. Secondly you are clearly to much of a homer to see that are lb core was a weakness this year. One injury with the current crop and we are screwed.

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That's funny coming from an idiot like yourself, Danny.

What was a weakness was the PASS RUSH late in the year. Now, that pass rush comes from 2 places. The OLBs and the DEs, with an occasional CB blitz.

The Pats LBers were excellent against the run. Against the Pass, not nearly as good, but not horrible either.

The Pats need DEPTH at OLB. They could have it if they moved Thomas there full time to rotate with Vrabel and Colvin. Otherwise, they need a 3rd person who they can rotate in on a regular basis to help them keep up the pressure. The Pats also need Warren, Seymour and Green to do a better job of tying up the O-line to leave the LBs free to get in.

Now, it would be REALLY NICE to have an ILB who could shoot a gap on occasion the way Seau did a couple of time. But, currently they don't have the depth for that. And they need depth. Both at ILB and OLB.

Currently, at OLB they have Vrabel, Colvin, Woods. At ILB they have Thomas, Alexander, Lua, Slaughter, Izzo. This is not my idea of good depth, though Slaughter and Lua are unknowns.

DaBruinz said:

That's funny coming from an idiot like yourself, Danny.

What was a weakness was the PASS RUSH late in the year. Now, that pass rush comes from 2 places. The OLBs and the DEs, with an occasional CB blitz.

The Pats LBers were excellent against the run. Against the Pass, not nearly as good, but not horrible either.

The Pats need DEPTH at OLB. They could have it if they moved Thomas there full time to rotate with Vrabel and Colvin. Otherwise, they need a 3rd person who they can rotate in on a regular basis to help them keep up the pressure. The Pats also need Warren, Seymour and Green to do a better job of tying up the O-line to leave the LBs free to get in.

Now, it would be REALLY NICE to have an ILB who could shoot a gap on occasion the way Seau did a couple of time. But, currently they don't have the depth for that. And they need depth. Both at ILB and OLB.

Currently, at OLB they have Vrabel, Colvin, Woods. At ILB they have Thomas, Alexander, Lua, Slaughter, Izzo. This is not my idea of good depth, though Slaughter and Lua are unknowns.

Click to expand...

I dont think we will enjoy such an injury free season next year. The pats lb core help up well. It cannot be denied in coverage Bew was horrible. I dont think we need a whole new unit. Just one legit starter and another depth guy.

Maybe Lua will excel. I dont know.

DaBruinz said:

Did I miss where Hobson has been an ILB for the Jets? He's only played OLB to my knowledge.

Click to expand...

Just speculation on my part that Hobson could make the switch to inside linebacker considering his size.

mgteich said:

Belichick prefers veteran linebackers. We already have a pretty strong set of linebackers. I am not saying that we shouldn't pick up a veteran and a top draftee, but we aren't in terrible shape. I expect Seau back. He's in better shape than almost anyone on the team. I have confidence in pioli's ability to find a linebacker who would fit in as a backup.

STARTERS (this is a top group)
Colvin, Thomas, Seau, Vrabel
Remember, Colvin has replaced Bruschi, a major improvement.

BACKUPS
Woods, Alexander, Lua, Slaughter

SPECIAL TEAMS
Izzo

Click to expand...

How's moving Colvin to inside to replace Bruschi any where near a great idea? Not only does Colvin excel but as does Vrabel when both are playing the edges. All of the backups you've mention havn't even come close to proving anything. I think Woods is the only one at this point with enough potential to develop into a decent OLB, he has the speed that's for sure. So i really fail to see you're logic in this thread. I believe that LB is our biggest weakness at this point. Both in depth and age.

It's not that the Pats LBs aren't good, it's that there is definitely not a lot of depth there, and there's not much speed, particularly inside. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem drafting a defensive lineman at #7, but I'd prefer a linebacker. A little youth would be nice.

Along those lines, count me as one who's happy the Pats didn't get Zach Thomas.