Will the Loss in SB lead to end of Dynasty?

Thread title says it all; but hear is what I am thinking.

1. NYG gameplan against us will be VIEWED as "the blue-print" to beat the Pats offense next year.

that means everybody in every game is going to be coming at tommy full tilt-full time as it were. If BB can't fix the protection and get a viable running game to counter it; sooner or later tommy is going to end his games started streak. and in the meantime we just could see another couple of close games turn out more like SB XVII than pats-eagles.

2. we had a mystique building that if you were a aging FA and wanted to get that SB ring.... take less money and go to the Pats; they will get it. Well that theory was busted for Randy and Junior. So maybe it keeps a few other FAs from taking that discount deal when an extra half-mil is on the table in dallas or seattle.

3. Attracting/keeping FAs-Cap Mgmt. With the acquisition of Randy and franchising of Asante we have shifted the traditional cap management from the meat of the cap in the middle of the team to a larger % of the cap in the top 5 players. This has traditionally been the problem in the FA period of maintaining a dynasty - overpaying at the top end and not having enough left in the middle and bottom to maintain team depth.
we lost last year's AFCC because of lack of QUALITY depth/speed at LB. And this year SB due to lack of QUALITY depth at OG and LB.


So will all these factors bring together a collapse of the dynasty; or will BB-Pioli be able to pull more rabbits out of the FA hat and will Cassel be prepared to step up if Brady goes down for 3+ games?????

Only time will tell.

Besides which, the Giants had one of the best DLs in the league last season (even if it was inflated by the awfulness of the Philly OL). Just because they were able to do it doesn't mean that other teams will.

Plus, don't forget that the Patriots should have a healthy Sammy Morris and a more experienced Laurence Maroney available, too.

Gumby said:

Thread title says it all; but hear is what I am thinking.

1. NYG gameplan against us will be VIEWED as "the blue-print" to beat the Pats offense next year.

that means everybody in every game is going to be coming at tommy full tilt-full time as it were. If BB can't fix the protection and get a viable running game to counter it; sooner or later tommy is going to end his games started streak. and in the meantime we just could see another couple of close games turn out more like SB XVII than pats-eagles.

2. we had a mystique building that if you were a aging FA and wanted to get that SB ring.... take less money and go to the Pats; they will get it. Well that theory was busted for Randy and Junior. So maybe it keeps a few other FAs from taking that discount deal when an extra half-mil is on the table in dallas or seattle.

3. Attracting/keeping FAs-Cap Mgmt. With the acquisition of Randy and franchising of Asante we have shifted the traditional cap management from the meat of the cap in the middle of the team to a larger % of the cap in the top 5 players. This has traditionally been the problem in the FA period of maintaining a dynasty - overpaying at the top end and not having enough left in the middle and bottom to maintain team depth.
we lost last year's AFCC because of lack of QUALITY depth/speed at LB. And this year SB due to lack of QUALITY depth at OG and LB.


So will all these factors bring together a collapse of the dynasty; or will BB-Pioli be able to pull more rabbits out of the FA hat and will Cassel be prepared to step up if Brady goes down for 3+ games?????

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The question is valid although I think so long as we have Bill and Tom it will never be over.

But you points are way off.

as to the game plan....Yes the giants had a good one but they are not the first to try it...They had better personell for it, Tom had no mobility (anke possible hernia), THe oline had their worst game as a unit since the days of max lane, and the coaching dropped the ball on adjusting properly.


As to the Mystique....I think Seau and Junior knew there was no guarentee but also knew it was their best shot.....You think the giants would have been number 2 on their list no it would have been teams like Indy, Dallas, San Diego. We fell minutes short so I don't think this was busted.

While your third point has some credence I don't think it means the value isn't there at the role player and back up levels just that we have our roster pretty well stocked with talent and we didn't/don't need tons of middle class players every year because they are here already.

1. We counterbalanced any gameplans for 18 games, not to mention that we were 2 min away from beating the Giant's game plan. Also if there is any coach to counteract a weakness, BB will fix it. Another thing is most teams do not have the personnel as the Giants did on their dline.

2. Winning 18 games is still an amazing accomplishment. That doesn't tarnish the successful winning environment of the Pats and I'm pretty sure most will view this as the best CHANCE to win a SB and still the best team in the league.

3. I think SP and BB do a good job maintaining the cap and will make sure we do not overdue any area. The money last offseason spent addressed some serious issues on the team that really needed an upgrade (Im thinking WR's). Remember that before this season, we went two seasons not being the top seed in the AFC and having to go on the road in the playoffs. We had some glaring weaknesses that returned us to the top this season but I dont see AS many glaring areas this season we need to address as we did the past two seasons (though there are definitely some we need to address).

As long as BB and TB are here this dynasty will remain intact. Can you imagine the two biggest winners in the NFL accepting defeat? They hate losing too much they'll continue to keep this team at the top.

The SB loss didn't "end" the dynasty so much as prevented its revival. Tentatively, the dynasty ended on an errant throw in Denver.

#12 said:

As long as BB and TB are here this dynasty will remain intact.

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IMO that diminishes what a dynasty really is. Dynasties are based on CHAMPIONSHIPS. Ok, we've won a few, now we have to win some more. I didn't hear anyone talking about a Yankee dynasty last year just because Torre & Jeter were still around and they won 4 titles back in the day.

Gumby said:

2. we had a mystique building that if you were a aging FA and wanted to get that SB ring.... take less money and go to the Pats; they will get it. Well that theory was busted for Randy and Junior. So maybe it keeps a few other FAs from taking that discount deal when an extra half-mil is on the table in dallas or seattle.

3. Attracting/keeping FAs-Cap Mgmt. With the acquisition of Randy and franchising of Asante we have shifted the traditional cap management from the meat of the cap in the middle of the team to a larger % of the cap in the top 5 players. This has traditionally been the problem in the FA period of maintaining a dynasty - overpaying at the top end and not having enough left in the middle and bottom to maintain team depth.
we lost last year's AFCC because of lack of QUALITY depth/speed at LB. And this year SB due to lack of QUALITY depth at OG and LB.


So will all these factors bring together a collapse of the dynasty; or will BB-Pioli be able to pull more rabbits out of the FA hat and will Cassel be prepared to step up if Brady goes down for 3+ games?????

Click to expand...

If it's the FA's #1 goal to win a SB, then said FA will want to play for the Pats. Asante is leaving for pastures new, but it's because of money, not the desire to win.

Keep in mind the 49er dynasty went through a three year drought in the mid-80's.

richpats said:

IMO that diminishes what a dynasty really is. Dynasties are based on CHAMPIONSHIPS. Ok, we've won a few, now we have to win some more. I didn't hear anyone talking about a Yankee dynasty last year just because Torre & Jeter were still around and they won 4 titles back in the day.

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Yes I agree Championships are what makes dynasties. I guess its not a gurantee but I do see them getting at least one more, probably a couple. This is why we can't really reflect on the BB/TB dynasty til they've retired. There's too many ifs. If they win another one the dynasty includes these years. You dont look at the niners dynasty as separate entities. They achieved 5 and there was plenty years where they didn't win one but when you look back on that time we see it going from the 80's to the 90's. Same with Pitts. We don't mention the specific years they won vs the ones they didn't. We look at that dynasty as the 70's Steelers dynasty, and they are looked back at as the most dominant team in that decade. Same with this team. They are the most dominant of this era, and if they win another one it will not be two separate dynasties but one dynasty extending over the whole era.

there is no dynasty. None of the super bowls were won honestly. As a fan you have nothing to look on with pride now.

It's a fair question, asked and posed without any negativity, unlike a couple of similar questions that we've seen recently from trolls.

My answer is that we can't know right now.

Anyone who thinks that the final minute SB loss, with the team on the doorstep of a Perfect Season, isn't going to have some impact on the team is kidding themselves.

In the past, Belichick has been a master of turning adversity into motivation. Will he be able to do it again after arguably the most adverse event on the playing field that the team has faced during his years? I sure hope so, but I don't know.

As for how this impacts FA's and veterans like Junior Seau; how it impacts players on the roster in their decision to take less money to play here; how it impacts Draft Picks (we have number seven this year) to sign for less than they might have gotten elsewhere...all of that is stuff we just can't know.

So what does that mean for the "Dynasty?" In my opinion, we've already earned that title with our dominance of the AFC and three SB wins this decade, but I think that we have to win one more SB in the ten years following our first win in order to be legitimately compared to the Steelers and Niners of the seventies and eighties. Brady would have to win one more SB in his career to be put in the same category as Montana. So, that would mean one more win over the next three seasons.

The bottom line is that I don't think we're going to end up like the Rams, who were getting ready to claim that they were the next NFL Dynasty, before Adam Vinatieri put an end to their dreams and who never did anything else afterwards.

If I had to bet, I'd bet that Bill Belichick and Tom Brady will win at least one more Super Bowl together for the New England Patriots. Will it be this upcoming season or will we have to wait a few more years? I don't know.

Thanks for asking the question.

richpats said:

IMO that diminishes what a dynasty really is. Dynasties are based on CHAMPIONSHIPS. Ok, we've won a few, now we have to win some more. I didn't hear anyone talking about a Yankee dynasty last year just because Torre & Jeter were still around and they won 4 titles back in the day.

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+1. If there's no championship in the next two or three years, the dynasty is over.

Arrrr said:

there is no dynasty. None of the super bowls were won honestly. As a fan you have nothing to look on with pride now.

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and you have evidence to corroborate your Dolt opinion?

oh wait...you were out in the field and reading cowpies for signs and you came up with this...got it

pretty hypocritical of you seeing as how your GM personally rigged the rules for 4 years straight to favor his offense and how you've been caught redhanded using illegal crowd noise to gain a cheating unfair advantage at home

You should have a picture with belichick walking away after being ass beaten in the superbowl to complete your classy sig.

I believe the same question was asked back in 1988. The 49ers won in 81 and 84 and by 1988 they had gone 3 years without a SB victory.

Was the Joe Montana era over?

Whatever defines the dynasty has to leave for true reflection. That means Mr Brady and Mr Belichick. In other words, we just closed chapter 7. The novel isn't finished.

Joker said:

and you have evidence to corroborate your Dolt opinion?

oh wait...you were out in the field and reading cowpies for signs and you came up with this...got it

pretty hypocritical of you seeing as how your GM personally rigged the rules for 4 years straight to favor his offense and how you've been caught redhanded using illegal crowd noise to gain a cheating unfair advantage at home

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hahaha, I want to visit the strange alternate dimension you live in. It sounds like fun. Sorry, but the crowd noise thing has never happened and has never been proven. Goodell just admitted that the patriots cheated every season they won a superbowl. OOPS.

Arrrr said:

You should have a picture with belichick walking away after being ass beaten in the superbowl to complete your classy sig.

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The difference, moron, is that nobody ever kissed BB's ass for being classy. Get it?

Well I am glad you admit he is an unsportsmanlike child then. We have no further argument.

richpats said:

IMO that diminishes what a dynasty really is. Dynasties are based on CHAMPIONSHIPS. Ok, we've won a few, now we have to win some more. I didn't hear anyone talking about a Yankee dynasty last year just because Torre & Jeter were still around and they won 4 titles back in the day.

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My point isnt just case they are here we are still a dynasty my point is so long as they are here we will keep winning Championships.

If Torre and Jeter had won it all last year you would lump that title in with their other ones as part of that dynasty.

blatantly cheated the Steelers in the playoff game...Polamalu didn't intercept that ball??...bwahahahaha....poor Arrrr...so far up Polian's hershey he can see his molars...the Colts DEFINE modern cheating in the NFL....Polian should be criminally prosecuted for fraud

richpats said:

The SB loss didn't "end" the dynasty so much as prevented its revival. Tentatively, the dynasty ended on an errant throw in Denver.

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Exactly. Winning this year, or last year would have extended the "dynasty" (a foolish term anyways), but it's been over for a couple of years now. The only sad part is that they were an epic second half collapse, and an ill timed blitz away from five championships in seven years. Such is life.