Specter: Goodell's explanations don't pass scrutiny

Deus Irae · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

Chuck.U.Farley said:
BelichickFan said:

And the main benefit of the anti trust exemption is the evening of the playing field through TV revenue sharing. Consider this - the Patriots would be one of the prime benefactors of the lack of an anti trust exemption and teams like the Colts would go down the toilet. Big city teams, teams that own their own stadiums and the revenues they produce would have a huge advantage because they could outspend piss ant cities like Indianapolis.

Click to expand...

You might have a valid point if boston was actually larger then Indianapolis to bad you are way out in left field here. Here is the rankings on infoplease.com 13. Indianapolis Indiana 785,597 22. Boston Massachusetts 590,763 and lucas oil filed is owned by Indianapolis. and what nascar or indycar series race makes more money than ours a bigger city hosting nascar nope your point is moot. Get facts before you make yourself look stupid Dallas and New York might benefit but boston sure as hell would not.

Here, maybe these links will help you to understand how this works:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_TV_markets_and_major_sports_teams

http://www.mediainfocenter.org/compare/top50/

http://www.tvjobs.com/cgi-bin/markets/market2.cgi

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

Boston's overall population market is much larger than Indianapolis', and it's television market is as well.

SpiderFox53 · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

Chuck.U.Farley said:
You might have a valid point if boston was actually larger then Indianapolis to bad you are way out in left field here. Here is the rankings on infoplease.com 13. Indianapolis Indiana 785,597 22. Boston Massachusetts 590,763 and lucas oil filed is owned by Indianapolis. and what nascar or indycar series race makes more money than ours a bigger city hosting nascar nope your point is moot. Get facts before you make yourself look stupid Dallas and New York might benefit but boston sure as hell would not.

So the Greater Boston area, the 7th largest tv market wouldn't benefit from this?

fair catch fryar · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

Chuck.U.Farley said:
You might have a valid point if boston was actually larger then Indianapolis to bad you are way out in left field here. Here is the rankings on infoplease.com 13. Indianapolis Indiana 785,597 22. Boston Massachusetts 590,763 and lucas oil filed is owned by Indianapolis. and what nascar or indycar series race makes more money than ours a bigger city hosting nascar nope your point is moot. Get facts before you make yourself look stupid Dallas and New York might benefit but boston sure as hell would not.

Let me spell it out for you. G-E-O-G-R-A-P-H-Y. Maybe you should have finished 6th grade and then you might be able to figure this one out on your own.:bricks:

PatsFanInVa · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

BPF said:
If the below is true, what's there to investigate?? I'm sure no one in the league will talk because in the end most of them (coaches, scouts, GM's) take all the rules right to the edge and most often crossing the line for a competitive advantage and as evidenced by what happened yesterday under oath means nothing these days. As mentioned on this board many times, the Pats are not the only team in the league "spying," you'd have to be very naive to believe that.

Yah, and you also have to realize it's not just a "code" among the coaches that keeps people from whining...

It's also a matter of their bosses being business partners, and the league itself being the actual venture, not the individual teams. The teams are in collusion with one another, not competition, in terms of the business model.

Well, Mangini and/or the Jets heirarchy believe themselves to be bigger than that model, evidently. Or they believe the Pats to be bigger than that model, and they believe they must be put back in place. Whatever. This is how it's played out: all the labor peace in the world won't put the league together again if a few clowns in congress remove the antitrust exemption. The draft? Forget about it... a very different world, to say the least. One in which big markets (i.e., NE) will thrive, actually.

Regardless, the Steelers quote is the first of many team hierarchies realizing it's now the league against the world, not the Pats against the league.

PFnV

SpiderFox53 · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

PatsFanInVa said:
Yah, and you also have to realize it's not just a "code" among the coaches that keeps people from whining...

It's also a matter of their bosses being business partners, and the league itself being the actual venture, not the individual teams. The teams are in collusion with one another, not competition, in terms of the business model.

Well, Mangini and/or the Jets heirarchy believe themselves to be bigger than that model, evidently. Or they believe the Pats to be bigger than that model, and they believe they must be put back in place. Whatever. This is how it's played out: all the labor peace in the world won't put the league together again if a few clowns in congress remove the antitrust exemption. The draft? Forget about it... a very different world, to say the least. One in which big markets (i.e., NE) will thrive, actually.

Regardless, the Steelers quote is the first of many team hierarchies realizing it's now the league against the world, not the Pats against the league.

PFnV

I really really despise the Steelers, living in Pittsburgh and being a Patriots fan has done that to me. But the Steelers ownership really know what's what. They've pretty much always been ahead of the curve in knowing what is good for the league, and by extension, good for the Steelers.

I think you are correct in that this will be the first of several owners saying this or something similar.

PatsFanInVa · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

sure, league owners will line up behind the league. Suuuure, that'll help LOL.

They (Specter et al) look like they're digging in for the long haul. Long, cold winter coming my friends.

Hope nobody's snuggled up to a Jets fan... if so, your life is gonna be hell.

PFnV

gomezcat · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

I suspect that everyone who has a stake in the NFL (and there are businesses which are, I suspect, bigger than comcast) will make sure that this goes away.

Edit: I see that comcast's revenues recently were $7.8 billion. It would be interesting to see how that compares with the other media corporations.

pepper03 · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

The best thing that could happpen would be for a hearing like baseball had this week with all the participants present and under oath-let's get this all out on the table instead of this way-and let's see what is really going on here.

I believe the Pats win big in that scenario.

jcdavey · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

BPF said:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3246788

What to make of all this??

3 important facts:
* Specter (R-Pa.) told ESPN.com that Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) offered support on Thursday for his inquiry into the New England Patriots' questionable videotaping practices, saying Leahy is "prepared to have the committee pay for people who travel and investigate." Leahy sat in on a part of Wednesday's session with Goodell and league counsel, Specter said.

* Later Thursday, the Steelers released a statement that read: "We consider the tapes of our coaching staff during our games against the New England Patriots to be a non-issue. In our opinion, they had no impact on the results of those games. The Steelers fully support the manner in which Commissioner Goodell handled the situation and the discipline that he levied against those who violated league rules. We are confident that the Commissioner has taken appropriate action in his investigation of this matter, and will do so again if new information arises which requires further investigation and or discipline."

* " Specter said he was concerned to learn from Walsh's attorney that an NFL security representative, **** Farley, had been investigating Walsh. Specter said: "I confronted them on that, and Goodell says, 'Yeah, he [Farley] works for us. Yeah, he is a security guy, but we didn't know he was investigating him.'"

Aiello said Thursday that it is an overstatement to suggest the league is investigating Walsh.

"The only thing we're doing is looking at public records and trying to verify his employment history in an effort to learn about him," Aiello said.

i'm surprised goodell hasn't had walsh killed yet, the nfl is the #1 sport, i'd think they'd do everything possible to protect that

TripleOption · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

DropKick Flutie said:
The NFL enjoys anti-trust freedoms. A lot of NFL stadiums are paid for with tax payer dollars... that makes them accountable to the government and the tax payers. Millions of tax paying fans need to know the games are legit, so I can't understand why anyone would think this is a waste of government time.

You are beyond stupid. This is a massive waste of time and money. The games are "legit"? We are not talking about game fixing here. It's a rules infraction. Perhaps they should look into whether some OL coaches teach their linemen to hold? Perhaps a Senate subcommittee?

I work in some of the worst areas in the state, and 90% of the people I deal with are on SSDI collecting a disability check from the government...many of them 16 or 17 years old and "disabled" from various mental conditions, yet if you ask them they don't even see a Doctor. BILLIONS of dollars wasted on a complete scam, and Specter is worried about Bill's tapes of 3 guys making various signals and hand gestures.

You have no credibility.

DropKick Flutie · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

TripleOption said:
You are beyond stupid. This is a massive waste of time and money. The games are "legit"? We are not talking about game fixing here. It's a rules infraction. Perhaps they should look into whether some OL coaches teach their linemen to hold? Perhaps a Senate subcommittee?

Holding is 10 yds...the largest fine in NFL history for a rules infraction? Call it whatever you want to make you feel better. If A-Rod had been corking his bat for the past 8 years, Red Sox fans would go to NY and burn it down. It's the same thing... don't you get it? A rules infraction... LMAO... talk about splitting hairs. This has been going on for 8 years, the NFL tried to cover it up, it didn't work. Now Goodell, BB, and the Pats have to pay the price. Good... the league has to be cleaned up. There had to be some edge to gain or he wouldn't have done it for 8 years.

TripleOption said:
I work in some of the worst areas in the state, and 90% of the people I deal with are on SSDI collecting a disability check from the government...many of them 16 or 17 years old and "disabled" from various mental conditions, yet if you ask them they don't even see a Doctor. BILLIONS of dollars wasted on a complete scam, and Specter is worried about Bill's tapes of 3 guys making various signals and hand gestures.

So your a socialist? That makes perfect sense...

The government wastes more money and more time on other things that are even more meaningless... so what's the big deal?

TripleOption said:
You have no credibility.

Ditto. Take off your homer glasses and see that this is a problem.

TripleOption · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

I'm a socialist because I see criminal fraud going on every day to the tune of billions...and I dare say it's wrong?

Yes, a rules infraction. Tell me, oh football god...how is it anything more?

How did the Pats get anything out of this? What was the great benefit that makes it worthy of a Senate investigation?

You are a Pats hater, nothing more.

RIVA Pats Fan · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

Those are the actual populations within the city limits, not metro areas.

Boston is ranked 11th with 4.5 million people.
Indianapolis is actually TIED at 33rd with Providence, RI (another Patriots metro area) and right above Hartford, CT.

When you put Boston, Hartford and Providence together, you are looking at 6 million + which puts the total market in the top 5 along with NYC, LA, Chicago and Dallas.

So therefore, Indianapolis is in Providence's league if Providence were way out on an island.

Chuck.U.Farley said:
You might have a valid point if boston was actually larger then Indianapolis to bad you are way out in left field here. Here is the rankings on infoplease.com 13. Indianapolis Indiana 785,597 22. Boston Massachusetts 590,763 and lucas oil filed is owned by Indianapolis. and what nascar or indycar series race makes more money than ours a bigger city hosting nascar nope your point is moot. Get facts before you make yourself look stupid Dallas and New York might benefit but boston sure as hell would not.

ctpatsfan77 · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

BPF said:
* Specter (R-Pa.) told ESPN.com that Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) offered support on Thursday for his inquiry into the New England Patriots' questionable videotaping practices, saying Leahy is "prepared to have the committee pay for people who travel and investigate." Leahy sat in on a part of Wednesday's session with Goodell and league counsel, Specter said.

One important point, though--it sounds like Leahy is inclined to "offer support," sort of the way you indulge a crazy uncle--but not to hold hearings or issue subpoenas.

RIVA Pats Fan · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

I would assume that if Leahy does hold a hearing, it would be used to question Specter's motives along with question the integrity of the other teams as well. Ted Kennedy and Sheldon Whitehouse (RI) are both on that committee and as good as Kennedy is at interrogating people, Whitehoue has shown to be a heck of a good prosecutor in the past. He would eat Walsh up.

ctpatsfan77 said:
One important point, though--it sounds like Leahy is inclined to "offer support," sort of the way you indulge a crazy uncle--but not to hold hearings or issue subpoenas.

sieglo · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

BPF said:
I am more convinced than ever that the NFL knows this was going on league wide and they want this to go away asap.

If that's true then they never should have hammered the Pats with fines and created this ****storm in the first place. They should have said, "no big deal, happens all the time" and given the Pats a slap on the wrist.

Goodell is an incompetent moron.

Mooch · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

Chuck.U.Farley said:
You might have a valid point if boston was actually larger then Indianapolis to bad you are way out in left field here. Here is the rankings on infoplease.com 13. Indianapolis Indiana 785,597 22. Boston Massachusetts 590,763 and lucas oil filed is owned by Indianapolis. and what nascar or indycar series race makes more money than ours a bigger city hosting nascar nope your point is moot. Get facts before you make yourself look stupid Dallas and New York might benefit but boston sure as hell would not.

When you're talking about TV revenues it's not the CITY size that matters, it's the DMA, which measures the size of the TV market.

Boston is the #7 DMA in the country - Nearly 2.4 million people

Indianapolis is the #25 DMA in the country - Just shy of 1.1 million people

If the Antitrust exemption went away, it could CRIPPLE the following franchises:

Jacksonville
Buffalo
Green Bay
Indy
Tennessee
Pittsburgh
Arizona

Without the NFL TV contract, which leads directly to equal revenue sharing, those "small market" franchises would get crushed. The lack of shared TV and gate revenue with those teams would keep them from even spending to the cap every year and they would lose tons of free agents each season. Guys like Bill Polian have complained for years that smaller market teams can't compete under the CURRENT system in terms of free agency.

Without revenue sharing, the CBA would fall apart too. Revenue sharing is a labor issue for the NFLPA and they would clearly have a problem with losing their hold on a percentage of "total [leaguewide] football revenue" since that pool of collective money would disappear if the antitrust exemption were eliminated. Remember, the entire CBA is based on the players getting a set percentage cut of the total NFL pooled revenue. If each team negotiated its own TV deal, then there's no revenue sharing and that pool of NFL shared dough goes out the window.

BSR · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

DropKick Flutie said:
Holding is 10 yds...the largest fine in NFL history for a rules infraction? Call it whatever you want to make you feel better. If A-Rod had been corking his bat for the past 8 years, Red Sox fans would go to NY and burn it down. It's the same thing... don't you get it? A rules infraction... LMAO... talk about splitting hairs. This has been going on for 8 years, the NFL tried to cover it up, it didn't work. Now Goodell, BB, and the Pats have to pay the price. Good... the league has to be cleaned up. There had to be some edge to gain or he wouldn't have done it for 8 years.

I don't know if you haven't noticed but there is this little steriods in baseball investigation taking place that involves a number of the players from the Yankees championship teams. And yet, there isn't this hue and cry by Red Sox fans against the Yankees as you claim. Let me ask you, which has more impact: videotaping what is already out in the open or steriods?

TripleOption · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

DropKick Flutie said:
Holding is 10 yds...the largest fine in NFL history for a rules infraction? Call it whatever you want to make you feel better. If A-Rod had been corking his bat for the past 8 years, Red Sox fans would go to NY and burn it down. It's the same thing... don't you get it? A rules infraction... LMAO... talk about splitting hairs. This has been going on for 8 years, the NFL tried to cover it up, it didn't work.

No, the largest fine because a brand new NFL Commissioner came in with a "new Sheriff in town" mentality and got media kudos for his harsh response to the Pacman and Vick situations. He figured he would be a hero on this one too, but something tells me when he dug a bit further he found the real truth. Many, many teams do it and he got dragged into a border war between BB/Mangini. Nothing more.

If you knew the slightest thing about football, you would know that Defensive signal stealing goes on at every level. Hell, I coach in HS and my HC/DC has another guy give dummy signals because he knows the OC is looking right at him and trying to grab his calls. IN HIGH SCHOOL. Do you really think that in the NFL, with a coach's existance and millions at stake, no one is doing that now? And the bottom line is WHO CARES. Change your signals. It's a non-issue.

I remember a game years ago when the Pats played Miami (I believe) and Todd Collins picked off a pass and went yard. It came out later that the Pats LB's(under Carroll?) had figured out the other team's audibles. There are backup QB's in this league that are only still in football because they are good at picking off signals. You are naive if you deny it.

Go back and watch the Raiders/Bucs Super Bowl. I have no doubt that the Bucs were jumping routes and scoring on the strength of Gruden picking off the audibles.

Your holier than thou attitude betrays your ignorance.

WTE · Feb 15, 2008

Re: Breaking "Spygate" news

Specter says that Walsh's attorneys have described him as "scared."

Well of course he's scared. He's a pathological liar. He knows if he has to testify all the lies he's told his family, friends and employer over the years will come out and cause him severe harm, ridicule and possible loss of employment.

He wouldn't be scared if he had been telling the truth all along.

Here's a comment from barstoolsports.com from someone who knew him well. It says everything about this scumbag:

I have known Matt Walsh personally - he married someone that I was friends with....no longer friends with her partly because once she met Matt she became an even bigger liar than she was before - his influence. He is abusive to his wife if that is any indication of the type of person he is Matt is one of the worst people I have ever met in my life - he doesnt know what truth is and he always looks out for himself. When he was fired from the Patriots he told all of us he quit. I always knew it was a lie because he was collecting unemployment...so the patriots must not have given him any kind of package when the fired him. Right before he got married he was emailing some stripper about how he wants to rub up against her and he was so stupid that he copied everyone in his address book including his soon to be wifes family and friends. He said that his email account was stolen by someone and that is who emailed the stripper. Hopefully all his lies will catch up with him this time

— Kellyt, Feb 07 2008, 7:27 pm

http://www.barstoolsports.com/randomthoughts/2008/02/02/who_would_you_rather_stab/

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