the skinny on Seymour's behavior

Dojo Chargerfan said:

I understand that. They go whistle to whistle. So what if it was after the whistle? There is a line that is drawn that everyone, even NE fans, know where it is and when a player crosses that line it's too far. It safe to say that the line is drawn between necessary and unnecessary. By Sey pushing McNeill into the pile did that help stop the RB? nope. By giving Rivers a shoulder shiver does that help his cause? nope. You and I know where the line is drawn and would be talking about how cheap Merriman is if he had done it to Lyte. You would have said he was on his roid rage. But instead, because you won, we're labeled as whiners. Whiners why? Because Sey was accused of taking cheap shots? Did Hardwick claim that's why the Pats won? nope. Are we whiners because you danced on our 50 yard line after a divisional game win and we fought back by calling your team out? I just don't understand the thinking of Patriot fans sometimes.

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1.) "You" aren't a Charger, so "we" doesn't apply

2.) The Chargers are whiners for multiple reasons

3.) If your claim is that none of the Chargers were 'bumping' after the whistle or doing anything else over that mythical line you've suddenly found, feel free to watch the game again and focus on every Charger player on every play.

4.) No video shows any Seymour headbutt of a Chargers coach. Hardwick was either lying of has the NFL Zapruder tape somewhere. The ESPN article shows no headslap by Seymour to Hardwick. In fact, the ESPN article states that nothing along the lines of Hardwick's allegations happened when Seymour was matched up against Hardwick one on one.

5.) The NFL found nothing that rose to a fine-able offense, despite Hardwick's bleating.

6.) Break down the 'offenses' of Seymour:

2 "bumps" on Dielman, one the author said was just a reminder that Dielman, THE CHARGERS AVOWED ENFORCER ON OFFENSE, wasn't the only player worthy of the label.

Seymour fell on Dielman, but Sando doesn't even claim it was dirty, using the wording "perhaps unnecessarily".

Sando called a push in a pile up "unnecessary".

Sando mentioned a 'roundhouse', but concedes that Seymour's intentions were not clear.

1 "bump" on Rivers, followed by River's attempt at an academy award.

So, no foot-stomping was noted, despite Hardwick's allegations, and only one play that Sando even felt was clearly 'unnecessary'.

To sum up all these 'over the line' things:

3 'bumps'

1 play deemed unnecessary

2 plays Sando can't call one way or the other.

0 foot stomps

It was nothing like Hardwick, an admitted dirty player, was insisting it was. Chargers fans should probably be wondering just how many of their favorite team's players have 'issues'.


P.S. an ESPN article dated 11/9/2007 has Quentin Jammer as one of the 10 most penalized players in the NFL from 2004-2007

Dojo Chargerfan said:

I read that the Chargers walked out when the Patriots were getting introduced, a sign of disrespect, but no way at all illegal. They go on by saying that Sey crosses the 50yd line and gets into it with McNeill which is why the oline coach is there to intervene. I'm not going to say this is true but this is what I was reading. It may have been wrong for the Chargers to come out early but the refs have to take control of the moment at that point. This is how the Steelers/Browns fight got out of hand, too much jawwing on opposing sides. This was not in fun and, if this was true, Sey should be warned that if he does it again then he'll be fined. The NFL does not want to have another on the field riot again.

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This is two years in a row that the Pats sent the Chargers to the couch to watch the rest of the playoffs. They can disrespect all they want while watching the TV.

Joker said:

Goo gox blox lox?

try English

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I wasn't talking to you. Comprendes?

Dojo Chargerfan said:

Those were an awful lot of extracurricular activities going on by one player. Hardwick has a point that this game was very cheap by Seymore. I'm just surprised that none of these drew a flag. You just can't head slap, jump on someone, shove someone over a pile, or bump QB's and get away with it. It was a hard fought game but these are a bit much.

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An awful lot of extracurricular activities, based on what comparison? If one is going to make a statement like that then they have to have more then one example.

Was every player on every down scrutinized the way Seymour was?

Come on there were what 60 or more plays on defense and after using a microscope this is all one can come up with.

What do you think happens in a football scrum that is only one play of 60 or more in an NFL game.....Lots of things happen and yes there are dirty players but Seymour is not one of them.

Not one penalty even with all of the crybaby activity's with the REFs and then the NFL goes over the game tape with its RAT squad and still no fines......

This is the NFL not not your sons soccer league....get used to men being men in a hand to hand fight for dominance.

If you want to see NFL dirty watch a few Titans games not the Pats.

Dojo Chargerfan said:

Also, you seen a total of 6 seconds that was caught on tape. I'll admit, for those 6 seconds I didn't see a headbutt but who's to say that was the headbutt that Nick was pointing out? All I know is that McNeill and Sey was jawing and Sey gets into a coaches face that looks like he was trying to break it up. In fact, the coach was so intimidated by Sey that he had to back up and McNeill had to continue the jawing. I read that Seymour was on the wrong side of the field, somewhere he was not supposed to go, which if true proving that Sey was the starter of the argument because he pursued it. Sey certainly looked like an a-hole to a lot of people around the league but Hardwick looks like a complainer. I would have PREFERED it handled on the field but if he continues at it and doesn't get flagged sometimes you have to go elsewhere. What better way to get the NFL's attention than to bring it to mainstream media?

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Couple of things..

There was no headbutt, so Hardwick exaggerated on this issue, if you exaggerate once your credibility is minimized.

Remember last year the big deal the Chargers made about dancing on you limp bolt sign, it is pretty much the same in our house, mind your manners, keep your mouth shut and nothing happens. Not sure who started it, but most of us have seen him enough times to know he does not go looking for trouble.

Bringing this to the attention of the NFL is not going to do much, except makes other players realize that Hardwick is a whiny little *****.

The next we play you #93 is gonna have a day of reckoning, some guys you do not piss off..

Dojo Chargerfan said:

I read that the Chargers walked out when the Patriots were getting introduced, a sign of disrespect, but no way at all illegal. They go on by saying that Sey crosses the 50yd line and gets into it with McNeill which is why the oline coach is there to intervene. I'm not going to say this is true but this is what I was reading. It may have been wrong for the Chargers to come out early but the refs have to take control of the moment at that point. This is how the Steelers/Browns fight got out of hand, too much jawwing on opposing sides. This was not in fun and, if this was true, Sey should be warned that if he does it again then he'll be fined. The NFL does not want to have another on the field riot again.

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why do the chargers even have to act ******ed like that?

why do they insist on starting this extra crap rather than just playing the game

Dojo Chargerfan said:

By Sey pushing McNeill into the pile did that help stop the RB? nope.

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Watch that play. McNeil comes in late, takes his forearm and gets it underneath Sey's facemask and jams it into his throat. Seymour simply shoved McNeil onto the ground.

If that's what the Chargers are complaining about, they are bigger jerks than I thought. I watched the play over and over, it was clearly McNeil that instigated it. He's whining simply because he got knocked down like a 2 year old.

jcdavey said:

why do the chargers even have to act ******ed like that?

why do they insist on starting this extra crap rather than just playing the game

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It goes with being an immature team without any leadership from it's head coach.

Dojo Chargerfan said:

I understand that. They go whistle to whistle. So what if it was after the whistle? There is a line that is drawn that everyone, even NE fans, know where it is and when a player crosses that line it's too far. It safe to say that the line is drawn between necessary and unnecessary. By Sey pushing McNeill into the pile did that help stop the RB? nope. By giving Rivers a shoulder shiver does that help his cause? nope. You and I know where the line is drawn and would be talking about how cheap Merriman is if he had done it to Lyte. You would have said he was on his roid rage. But instead, because you won, we're labeled as whiners. Whiners why? Because Sey was accused of taking cheap shots? Did Hardwick claim that's why the Pats won? nope. Are we whiners because you danced on our 50 yard line after a divisional game win and we fought back by calling your team out? I just don't understand the thinking of Patriot fans sometimes.

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I don't understand the thinking of opposing teams' fans, either.
"We don't like the Patriots so we're going to post on their fans' board and complain about how we don't like the Patriots." What's the point? You guys lost, your "team leader" LDT sat like a hump on the bench without saying a word to anyone (the definition of brooding, I'd say), and your center complained about so-called "dirty play" that happens in every game around the league.
How many times have you posted on this thread alone? What's your point? Seymour is dirty? Nope. Not buying it.
You lost. That's it. Go home and plan for next year, because all this is just :blahblah:

Dojo Chargerfan said:

I played organized football for 11 years until I was 20 and was forced out due to a pretty bad ankle injury that nags me to this day. I know what it's like to take the cheap shots. I was a ILB/OG all 4 years in HS so I know what goes on in the bottom of the piles. There's some punching, some elbows, and some cleats that go where they probably shouldn't go. There's been players I came across as dirty and they paid the price in the pile but there is that invisible line that crosses from borderline to a dirty player. My Tivo deleted my game due to insufficient space so I wasn't able to rewatch it, and I'm not taking Hardwicks side, but it just depends on how far past that line that player goes. Maybe Hardwick shouldn't have went to the media after the game but if it prevents him from doing it in the SB and causes the NFL to watch a player more closely then it was probably worth it.

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I've officiated football for 20 years, for the last 10 at the NCAA Div 1 level. When I read the list of "incidents" Seymour was supposedly involved in, the only one I thought was flag worthy was the head slap, and you know what they get missed.

There was one where it was said he fell on someone after the whistle and it "may have been unnecessary". So it's possible he just lost his balance, (happens almost every play).

The elbow after the whistle? The hip check to Rivers? The bump after the whistle? We have plays we describe as "talk to's" meaning you have to talk to the player, not throw a flag. If you wanted officials to call these penalties, the game would never end.

TripleOption said:

Watch that play. McNeil comes in late, takes his forearm and gets it underneath Sey's facemask and jams it into his throat. Seymour simply shoved McNeil onto the ground.

If that's what the Chargers are complaining about, they are bigger jerks than I thought. I watched the play over and over, it was clearly McNeil that instigated it. He's whining simply because he got knocked down like a 2 year old.

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I saw that as well. Mcneil is definitely a hypocrite.