OT: Darn! There goes my pipe dream! (Colts sign Sanders to extension)

coltsfan · Dec 28, 2007

tombonneau said:
I was just rattling off D players OTTOMH, illustrating that there are likely 4 players better than the two of them. I'm sure if I gave it thought and research I could come up with 10 or more you could argue are better.

Point is a D player's value is subjective as his worth is determined by how he fits into the D.

e.g. Freeney is not worth as much to the Pats D as Wilfork, and vice versa.

In Colts D, DF & BS are most likely "top 5" guys in the league; however, if you were to start a new team, I think objectively there are at least 4 guys a GM would pick before those two.

Ahh, at least someone realizes that Wilfork is the best and most important player on your D!

And I don't think you could find more players than that. Sure, there are some great run stuffers like Wilfork, Jamal Williams, Haynesworth, the Williams in Minnesota, etc; but they aren't going to help teams beat the Pats because the Pats just throw every down against those teams. When I'm playing the Pats, I want Freeney and Mathis on my side much more than Kevin and Pat Williams. Considering the Pats are the team to beat in the NFL right now, that's how I decide whos most valuable or the best. And I'd say the same playing against the Cowboys or Packers, because those are passing teams as well.

Deus Irae · Dec 28, 2007

coltsfan said:
Well, I would agree with you that some of the players I mentioned are mediocre, but guys like Keiaho, Ed Johnson, Bethea are legit talents. And you're right on the players last year like David. I was telling that all off-season on here when Pats' fans thought we'd miss those players, so you're preaching to the choir here. But guys like Keiaho, Session, and Hagler are much more physical than June; and the same with our corners this year compared to last year. And the other guys I mentioned aren't great, but they're very cheap and they give us better depth than we had last year and have allowed us to keep winning.

And no, Sanders can cover just fine. There's still people that say that Rodney Harrison can't cover, so it must be something in the water that causes people to say that these great safeties can't cover. We see Roy Williams and guys like that continuously get exposed in coverage, yet we never see Bob or Rodney.

As for your second paragraph, I agree there.

Sanders can't cover, and Rodney doesn't do it very well either, although he's better than Sanders. And, yes, both have been exposed numerous times this season.

fair catch fryar · Dec 28, 2007

Fixit said:
He's made a name for himself by playing with reckless abandon, making big hits, and being a great run-stopper...but he can't cover.

Admittedly, I'm only judging by what I've seen in games.

They're paying him all that dough to play in 80 regular season games over 5 years. With the way he plays and his track record for getting hurt, I wonder what this will average out to when it's all said and done. I know that the chance for injury is there for everyone, but Sanders increases his odds with his style.

Ishdul · Dec 28, 2007

coltsfan said:
Bailey and Ulracher have both had down years. Bailey has made no difference on a defense that has been horrible, and Ulracher has been ineffective according to all observers. Haynesworth has had some really great games this year, but it took him five years into his career and he has also been injured for half the year. Merriman has not had the same impact in games against the Pats as Freeney has had.

The guy you don't mention who should be mentioned is Demarcus Ware. Jared Allen is also up there.

As for the strategy. The Colts just happen to have more truly great hall-of-fame type players than any other team in the NFL, so that's why they choose to do the salary cap the way they do. Our strategy isn't better or worse than the Pats', it's just the reality of the Colts' situation. And when you look at it, is this contract bigger than Adalius Thomas'?

Bailey and Urlacher have had minor down years mostly because the teams around them have eroded. As far as I can tell, Urlacher is exactly the same as he's always been but the Bears are getting killed up front every game. Bailey is mildly hurt, but is still having a pretty decent season. I mean, do you seriously think that Bailey or Urlacher are done? Are you absolutely sure a guy like Jared Allen is better than Aaron Kampman, Mario Williams, Patrick Kerney and a host of others at the same position?

I don't think Sanders or Freeney are top 5 defensive players but they're both really good players who are both deserving of big contracts. Being the top paid DE or safety is a useless distinction because there's going to be ten guys in the next 5 years who break both records and the Colts have done a extremely job the past couple of years of stocking the team with cheap young guys.

Joker · Dec 28, 2007

need a TD when behind and the refs have tried to fix the game? Simple...just run Welker at Sanders at the goal line and PRESTO!...TD...the lead...the game.

Glad you signed the "world killer".

coltsfan · Dec 28, 2007

Ishdul said:
Bailey and Urlacher have had minor down years mostly because the teams around them have eroded. As far as I can tell, Urlacher is exactly the same as he's always been but the Bears are getting killed up front every game. Bailey is mildly hurt, but is still having a pretty decent season. I mean, do you seriously think that Bailey or Urlacher are done? Are you absolutely sure a guy like Jared Allen is better than Aaron Kampman, Mario Williams, Patrick Kerney and a host of others at the same position?

Mario Williams will be up there if he continues to play as he has. Freeney plays hard every snap, and Mario needs to show that. Kerney racks up a bunch of sacks against average players and gets shutdown by good tackles. No way on him. Kampman I'd put a little behind a guy like Freeney because he's not going to take over games against good competition like Freeney can.

coltsfan · Dec 28, 2007

Joker said:
need a TD when behind and the refs have tried to fix the game? Simple...just run Welker at Sanders at the goal line and PRESTO!...TD...the lead...the game.

Glad you signed the "world killer".

Oh yeah, Sanders can't cover because Welker beat him when for some reason the Colts had him covering him man-to-man. There aren't many corners that can cover Welker by themselves, and certainly no safeties.

I've watched just about every game Bob has played with the Colts. He can cover.

Fixit · Dec 28, 2007

coltsfan said:
I've watched just about every game Bob has played with the Colts. He can cover.

See, we can acknowledge that Rodney's weak in coverage. Why can't you do the same with Sanders? It's painfully obvious that any decent receiver can abuse him.

Deus Irae · Dec 28, 2007

coltsfan said:
Oh yeah, Sanders can't cover because Welker beat him when for some reason the Colts had him covering him man-to-man. There aren't many corners that can cover Welker by themselves, and certainly no safeties.

I've watched just about every game Bob has played with the Colts. He can cover.

You're biased, which is expected. I'm sorry, but Sanders can't cover. That's fine in the "Tampa 2" that the Colts play, since he's not called on to cover very often. It's not really something he has to do well in the Colts defense. He needs to read run/pass, and either flood the line or sit back in the shell.

coltsfan · Dec 28, 2007

Deus Irae said:
You're biased, which is expected. I'm sorry, but Sanders can't cover. That's fine in the "Tampa 2" that the Colts play, since he's not called on to cover very often. It's not really something he has to do well in the Colts defense. He needs to read run/pass, and either flood the line or sit back in the shell.

So you judge if a guy can cover only by if he can cover man-to-man? He's not asked to do that, so we don't know if he can. But in zone coverage he does just fine. And it's not like every safety covers well in a zone, there are plenty in the NFL that do not.

SoonerPatriot · Dec 28, 2007

coltsfan said:
I continue to scratch my head and wonder if you guys watched the Pats-Colts game this year. We almost won that game because of our defense, and had we won and Freeney still be healthy, we would be the favorites for the Superbowl. How soon we forget how your offense played so cautiously for three quarters. The guy will be worth $70M if he just plays in our matchups each year and wreaks havoc, let alone the rest of the season.

If grandma had a **** she'd be grandpa.

I watched it once. I watched it 15 times. I still don't think Freeney is worth $72 million. Nothing you can say, and nothing he does, will ever justify that in my opinion. No DE is worth that.

Deus Irae · Dec 28, 2007

coltsfan said:
So you judge if a guy can cover only by if he can cover man-to-man? He's not asked to do that, so we don't know if he can. But in zone coverage he does just fine. And it's not like every safety covers well in a zone, there are plenty in the NFL that do not.

As I said, Harrison isn't a very good cover safety, either, although he's better than Sanders. And man-to-man vs. zone isn't what I was talking about. By sitting back in the shell of the "Tampa 2", Sanders is protected because teams throw underneath. Why do you think the Patriots were so capable of exploiting that Colts secondary in their match-up once the pass rush of the Colts slowed down? And don't pretend that they didn't, because we both know the officials were jobbing the Patriots all game long, and Moss still got 145 yards receiving. That offensive pass interference call on Moss was a joke, just to point to one example.

Caspir · Dec 28, 2007

coltsfan said:
Yeah, the nail in the coffin was re-signing 2 of the top 5 defensive players in football.

I don't know what's funnier, the Patriots fans in this thread talking about how bad this move is, or you thinking Freeney and Sanders are two of the top five defensive players in the entire NFL.

Joker · Dec 28, 2007

I think it's a great move...it's obvious Brady knows he can't cover anyone in the slot...as long as he's in there he's vulnerable...and the best thing is he's proven to be brittle so the chances are he'll be eating away at the Colt cap from the I.R. for a good portion of that contract. I love the signing.

CUSoon · Dec 28, 2007

LMAO at Pats fans putting down Sanders and the Colts. Oh, and we are doomed AGAIN.

After reading this forum all offseason we had no chance this season anyway.

Love the predictions over here.

And for those who are talking about the game on Nov 4th. That loss for the Colts is on their battered offense in the second half not the defense.

I am sure Pats fans would have taken Sanders. Oh I saw you all talking about it. Best safety in the NFL.

spacecrime · Dec 28, 2007

ColtinIraq said:
You guys never learn about Polians signings do you?

You mean like Corey Simon?

JustWinBrady · Dec 28, 2007

coltsfan said:
Yeah, the nail in the coffin was re-signing 2 of the top 5 defensive players in football.

Feeny and Sanders are not the top 2 of 5 defensive players in football, sorry.

spacecrime · Dec 28, 2007

CUSoon said:
LMAO at Pats fans putting down Sanders and the Colts. Oh, and we are doomed AGAIN.

I am sure Pats fans would have taken Sanders. Oh I saw you all talking about it. Best safety in the NFL.

I wanted Sanders before he was drafted. Very impressed with him when he is on the field. Less than impressed when the Colts don't have him practice so he can stay healthy.

He is good, but way too fragile to give $20 mil to. Biggest problem is that there is better use of all that money than on a safety, but if it works for you, you're the Colts fan.

There are a few Colts I wouldn't mind seeing on the Pats, but Sanders and Clark aren't two of them.

Joker · Dec 28, 2007

And for those who are talking about the game on Nov 4th. That loss for the Colts is on their battered offense in the second half not the defense.

Colt fan is whining again...anyone got any cheese to go along?

spacecrime · Dec 28, 2007

CUSoon said:
And for those who are talking about the game on Nov 4th. That loss for the Colts is on their battered offense in the second half not the defense.

Are you nuts?

Last I checked the Colts had a 10 point lead with a little over nine minutes to play. At that point, all the defense had to do was not allow the Pats toscore again, and the game was won.

The defense promtly allowed the Pats to score 2 TDs in the last 8 minutes. That's quite a letdown, I would say. One TD every four minutes of play? Works out to allowing 105 points per game. Some defense.

Oh, and go back and watch the game again. Sanders was covering on all three TD passes (Moss, Welker, Faulk).

Sanders is a hard hitter against the run, but like Polamalu is weak against the pass.

This signing of Sanders does not displease me, but seeing as how you have no first round pick this year, I guess it was necessary.

Enjoy.

OT: Darn! There goes my pipe dream! (Colts sign Sanders to extension)

On the Game Day Roster

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

In the Starting Line-Up

On the Game Day Roster

PatsFans.com Supporter

On the Game Day Roster

On the Game Day Roster

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

On the Game Day Roster

In the Starting Line-Up

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

PatsFans.com Supporter

Banned

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

On the Game Day Roster

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

PatsFans.com Supporter

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Similar threads