I like Asante's attitude

haventrinity12 said:

A person with football know how can correct me, but it seems that Asante gets shredded for 59 minutes but makes one pick which overshadows the fact he was killed the entire game. The indy game in the playoffs and the philly game this year come to mind. He made a pick early then was mauled the rest of the game. He jumps routes and makes picks 1 out of 10 times and gives up yardage the other 9 times. I would rather have a guy who doesn't put himself in the position to have to make picks to save us.

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Huh? The guy has been the best CB in football not named Champ Bailey this year. He rarely gets thrown at...the true sign of respect by the opposing QB and coaches.

Regards,
Chris

I would remind everyone that we paid Asante $8 million dollars this year, and yet had about $6 million in CAP room left. It would not take much more to (1-1.5 million) pay him and secure his services on a long term contract. The contract might even cost LESS than this year forthe first coupleof years including next year, but it would include a lot of guaranteed money, for several years. Fortunately, Asante is young and would not fade before it ran its course. Remember we paid Ty law $ 11 million one year and that was when the cap was much smallerand he was over thirty. So would we sign Asante for less than we paid him this year, in a new contract starting next year?

I would. It is almost a no-brainer.

It would still provide money for a Moss signing, and allow us to sign a FA LB like pro bowler Karlos Dansby who is 6-4 250+ and has played both OLB and ILB. Versatilty is something BB desires isn't it? There might even be enough after renegotiating Colvin and Stallworth and Washington to sign all three as well. The draft would be pure bonus...

shakadave said:

Do we actually know, or is it just rumored, that ***ante was promised we wouldn't franchise him again in 2008? If it's an option, I think franchising him two more times may be a better deal than laying out the $50m for a long-term contract.

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It doesn't matter if it was promised or not; he's not being franchised. Franchising him would cost 10 million next year. And he's not getting 10 million from anyone

I would absolutely love the security of having him back there for X number of years--there's one position we don't have to worry about! But I just can't see it happening.......when you consider the Patriots have won Super Bowls during this run with the likes of Earthwind Morland (or whatever his name was), I can't see them breaking the bank for Asante--particularly, as others have noted, since they haven't done it already. Terrific player, though.

In '03 and '04, the Pats' kept Ty Law around despite his reaching the latter portion of a back-ended contract that required the Pats to shell out $8.8 mil and $10.2 mil respectively, in new money.

That was a hell of a lot in pre-CBA dollars.

So I really don't understand why anybody would bring up Ty Law as an example of the Patriots being unwilling to shell out big bucks for a CB.

There were even rumors at the time that the Pats were planning on keeping Law for '05, the last year of his contract, at a whopping $12 mil, which seemed insane at the time. They released Law after '04 because they don't give out long-term deals to older players coming off of potentially career-threatening injuries, not because they didn't think that star CBs aren't worth the money.

If anything, the amount of cap space they invested in Law in '03 and '04 tells us just how much BB values a top-tier CB.

Pat_Nasty said:

In '03 and '04, the Pats' kept Ty Law around despite his reaching the latter portion of a back-ended contract that required the Pats to shell out $8.8 mil and $10.2 mil respectively, in new money.

That was a hell of a lot in pre-CBA dollars.

So I really don't understand why anybody would bring up Ty Law as an example of the Patriots being unwilling to shell out big bucks for a CB.

There were even rumors at the time that the Pats were planning on keeping Law for '05, the last year of his contract, at a whopping $12 mil, which seemed insane at the time. They released Law after '04 because they don't give out long-term deals to older players coming off of potentially career-threatening injuries, not because they didn't think that star CBs aren't worth the money.

If anything, the amount of cap space they invested in Law in '03 and '04 tells us just how much BB values a top-tier CB.

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This post will likely be ignored because it employs facts rather than regurgitated media babble.

shakadave said:

Do we actually know, or is it just rumored, that ***ante was promised we wouldn't franchise him again in 2008?

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It has been widely reported that it was in his contract that the Pats will not be able to tag him in 2008 once the Pats won 12 regular-season games. I do not consider that a rumor.

Truck said:

It doesn't matter if it was promised or not; he's not being franchised. Franchising him would cost 10 million next year. And he's not getting 10 million from anyone

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In new money?? Yes.

Will Samuel have a 10 million cap hit in 2008?? I doubt it unless the team that signs him gives him a large roster bonus??

FYI about Ty Law
http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playerdetail.aspx?lname=law&player=1358

I think we all agree he is one of the best (if not THE best) corners in the league. That being said, I get that scuzzy, creepy feeling every time I see him do an interview that I'm watching an Asante self promotion. When I hear him say things like "That's what I do for my team" all I can invision is a used car salesman saying "Here's what I'm going to do for you". I would like to believe that he's truly in it for the good of the team while making a hefty chunk of change but I have the feeling he's gone after this year. I'm glad he showcasing his talents for us this year though.

I'd like to see him wrap up the defenders who catch the ball in front of them. Missing 3 or 4 tackles and then making one monster torpedo hit to get a big crowd reaction doesn't impress me.

Very simple question:

If the Patriots wanted to pay Asante, why wouldn't they do it now before he hits the FA market? Doesn't getting other offers as a FA surely drive up the price? I understand the Pats don't generally work like this but if, for example, they had inked him to a 5 year extension before Clement signed with SF, they could haved saved 10 million maybe.

shmessy said:

I believe it would be his third ring - he was a rookie in 2003, came in the same draft with Geno who stepped up amazingly that year for Milloy.

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you're right. also, i checked and he's been in 11 playoff games.

#56300ex said:

I think we all agree he is one of the best (if not THE best) corners in the league. That being said, I get that scuzzy, creepy feeling every time I see him do an interview that I'm watching an Asante self promotion. When I hear him say things like "That's what I do for my team" all I can invision is a used car salesman saying "Here's what I'm going to do for you". I would like to believe that he's truly in it for the good of the team while making a hefty chunk of change but I have the feeling he's gone after this year. I'm glad he showcasing his talents for us this year though.

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he's a young kid, so maybe he doesn't come across "polished" in his remarks, but he has a chance to hit the big casino and set himself and his family up for life. he's selling himself. i don't have a problem with that.

Pat_Nasty said:

In '03 and '04, the Pats' kept Ty Law around despite his reaching the latter portion of a back-ended contract that required the Pats to shell out $8.8 mil and $10.2 mil respectively, in new money.

That was a hell of a lot in pre-CBA dollars.

So I really don't understand why anybody would bring up Ty Law as an example of the Patriots being unwilling to shell out big bucks for a CB.

There were even rumors at the time that the Pats were planning on keeping Law for '05, the last year of his contract, at a whopping $12 mil, which seemed insane at the time. They released Law after '04 because they don't give out long-term deals to older players coming off of potentially career-threatening injuries, not because they didn't think that star CBs aren't worth the money.

If anything, the amount of cap space they invested in Law in '03 and '04 tells us just how much BB values a top-tier CB.

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Your understanding of new money is not correct. Ty got $6M in new money in 2003 and $7.5M in 2004. There were several reasons they kept him. One was they let Milloy go and could ill afford another hit in the secondary if they wanted to remain competitive - remember, Rodney was already on board to cover that loss, they had a young 4th round rookie behind Ty, and an oft injured RBC along side. In 2004 after paying him $7.5M they learned they could win without him... There was also the issue with his dead cap hit. To cut him after 2002 would have resulted in a dead cap hit of $8M, and unless you cut him after June 1 that would have hit the books all at once, so you'd be paying $8M to the cap for nothing.

They released Ty because he refused to restructure into a new deal in 2004 that would have continued to average $6M per through 2007 and guaranteed him the new money he had coming in the last two seasons remaining on his old deal in the first two seasons of the new deal. He thought that was an insult BEFORE he got hurt. He has not quite made that much in the 4 years since...

The deal they offered Asante last year averaged $6M per, but the guarantees were really in the $4.5M range ($9M). So they had two sticking points with this player - AAV and bonus or guaranteed value. Asante wants more of each, and while they did pay him $7.8M for one season this year, it's the concept of guaranteeing that kind of money up front that gives them pause, and it does that with most any player. It's a two fold calculation - how much do you value this player overall and how much of your cap are you willing to both commit to him and risk on him should you lose him for an extended length of time.

Brady got $26M guaranteed in his deal, and agreed to a 2 tier bonus structure, compared to his comparable of Manning who got $34M up front. And he is irreplaceable. Seymour got $18M and some of it got spread over the last year of his rookie deal lowering his AAV for cap purposes, AD got $20M in a two tier structure and left around a million a year on the table with SF. One of those two is a presumed HOF DE if he remains healthy and the other was obviously viewed as the anchor/core LB going forward. And Brady will have another deal coming in the next year or so to extend him through retirement. And Wilfork and Mankins who are earning pro bowl nods at the LOS will be due for their second and more substantial deals.

Why should they be reasonable if Asante isn't held to the same standard. There are only so many players you can have on those kind of top tier deals, even with split bonuses and options, and given the way BB builts from the LOS I just don't see any CB getting the kind of deal Asante reportedly wanted from this team. Not if they believe they can identify and draft talent outside of the first round, and even as in Asante's case outside of the first day, and coach it up and win with it in the secondary. Bill might commit that kind of cash in the secondary to an all world SS, but the guy he'd do that for - Ed Reed - is already getting that money in Baltimore.

Asante will be offered a Nate Clements like contract by some team next year. I love Asante, but there is NO way Asante Samuels is a patriot next year. NO F'in way - get used to it!

Based on Seymour's performance alone after he was made the highest paid DL in the league, there's no way they make Asante the highest paid corner, which some other team will. Think about it:

Brady ( home town discount, ok, sure)
Seymour - highest paid DL in the league if I'm not mistaken
Colvin with a cap hit of over 6 mm
Moss - FA next year, how important is he to resign?
Wilfork is only signed through 2009

Plus, all the other mid-tier players that we only have signed through 2008 and 2009. The rookies being drafted take 2-3 years to develop, and some never do.

If you are telling me that we can sign Asante to a multi year contract AND work out new deals with Wilfork, Moss, Green , Sanders, Wright, Bruschi/Seau or two quality ILB's to back fill those positions, then fine, I'm sold. Otherwise, I am praying that the first round pick is used on a DB that can step onto the field next year because it sure as hell won't be used on a linebacker.

Now, back to the season!

jbb9s said:

Very simple question:

If the Patriots wanted to pay Asante, why wouldn't they do it now before he hits the FA market? Doesn't getting other offers as a FA surely drive up the price? I understand the Pats don't generally work like this but if, for example, they had inked him to a 5 year extension before Clement signed with SF, they could haved saved 10 million maybe.

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They tried, but he was never interested in the numbers they were willing to offer. They can try again after next week - he can't talk to anyone but us until FA opens in March. Sometimes settling differences over the tag by waiving it for the following year, as the Pats agreed to do for him last Fall, builds goodwill and reopens lines of communication. But at the end of the day if Asante wants substantially more than they are willing to pay for a LCB irrespective of talent, they won't cave. It's not a matter of affording him, they can afford anyone they want. It's just the trade off is making cuts or cutting offers elsewhere - including within Asante's own unit where 3-5 other guys have to perform including covering his ballhawking play or he's useless and they too expect to get paid. As do the front 7 whose pressure goes a long way towards allowing him to jump routes and make plays.

D-cleater said:

Asante will be offered a Nate Clements like contract by some team next year. I love Asante, but there is NO way Asante Samuels is a patriot next year. NO F'in way - get used to it!

Based on Seymour's performance alone after he was made the highest paid DL in the league, there's no way they make Asante the highest paid corner, which some other team will. Think about it:

Brady ( home town discount, ok, sure)
Seymour - highest paid DL in the league if I'm not mistaken
Colvin with a cap hit of over 6 mm
Moss - FA next year, how important is he to resign?
Wilfork is only signed through 2009

Plus, all the other mid-tier players that we only have signed through 2008 and 2009. The rookies being drafted take 2-3 years to develop, and some never do.

If you are telling me that we can sign Asante to a multi year contract AND work out new deals with Wilfork, Moss, Green , Sanders, Wright, Bruschi/Seau or two quality ILB's to back fill those positions, then fine, I'm sold. Otherwise, I am praying that the first round pick is used on a DB that can step onto the field next year because it sure as hell won't be used on a linebacker.

Now, back to the season!

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Seymour was briefly the highest paid by bonus and 3 year AAV. But Freeney buried his deal, and Richard's got spread over 4 years because it was added on to the final season of his rookie deal. I think the did that deal with him for 2 reasons - it worked for him because it averaged $10M on the extension, and it worked for them because it averaged just $8M per spread over 4 years and it gave them time to assess his long range durability rather than committing nearly twice as much over 6-7 years. If he remains healthy and productive from here on out, he may cost them more to extend into retirement. But if he doesn't, they are off the hook after 2009 - risk/reward.

D-cleater said:

Asante will be offered a Nate Clements like contract by some team next year. I love Asante, but there is NO way Asante Samuels is a patriot next year. NO F'in way - get used to it!

Based on Seymour's performance alone after he was made the highest paid DL in the league, there's no way they make Asante the highest paid corner, which some other team will. Think about it:

Brady ( home town discount, ok, sure)
Seymour - highest paid DL in the league if I'm not mistaken
Colvin with a cap hit of over 6 mm
Moss - FA next year, how important is he to resign?
Wilfork is only signed through 2009

Plus, all the other mid-tier players that we only have signed through 2008 and 2009. The rookies being drafted take 2-3 years to develop, and some never do.

If you are telling me that we can sign Asante to a multi year contract AND work out new deals with Wilfork, Moss, Green , Sanders, Wright, Bruschi/Seau or two quality ILB's to back fill those positions, then fine, I'm sold. Otherwise, I am praying that the first round pick is used on a DB that can step onto the field next year because it sure as hell won't be used on a linebacker.

Now, back to the season!

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Do you mean the 8 year $64 million dollar deal for Clements? The Pats ALREADY PAY ASANTE that. Signing at 26, he would be 34 at the end of the contract and probably fading. But he would be in his prime for 7 of the 8 years. Or you could offer him $37 million as an option for an additional two last years when he was 35 and 36 and make it a nominal $100 million dollar contract, like the Clements contract. It would have exactly the same possibility of being exercised ..ZERO as the $16 million two year option that raised Clements contract to $80 million for the Agent to crow about and advertise for clients.

I fail to see why Asante is unsignable. Plus I expect Moss to be resigned and a major effort made for a Karlos Dansby. The money is there. I also expect Jabbar to sign and and Kelly and Rosey to renegotiate downward, and to sign. I'm unsure about Stallworth.

As to the others what do they have to do with 2008 or 2009? Worry about it but address it in 2010.

Do you even know what the projected CAP is for 2008? I uderstand it is not expected to be a great raise merely 4 or 5 million per year, but that covers a lot of signings,along with the excesscah fromthis year and the expected downward renegotiations, and pending retirements.

MoLewisrocks said:

Seymour was briefly the highest paid by bonus and 3 year AAV. But Freeney buried his deal, and Richard's got spread over 4 years because it was added on to the final season of his rookie deal. I think the did that deal with him for 2 reasons - it worked for him because it averaged $10M on the extension, and it worked for them because it averaged just $8M per spread over 4 years and it gave them time to assess his long range durability rather than committing nearly twice as much over 6-7 years. If he remains healthy and productive from here on out, he may cost them more to extend into retirement. But if he doesn't, they are off the hook after 2009 - risk/reward.

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And I can certainly appreciate that contract, and was ecstatic about it at the time ... forgot about Freeney.

So let me ask this...which player is more important to this defense today? I am actually praying we sign Asante, possibly moreso than Moss. He's arguably in the top 5 corners in the league and as such, is as much of a cornerstone of the defense as Seymour is. I'm not trying to lead the discussion in a completely different direction by comparing him to Seymour, I'm just anticipating Samuels to ask for a contract in that neighborhood, ( not on the same block , if you're Mercury Morris, but in the same neighborhood) ......... and I'm just wondering if the FO is going to pay that to Asante.

AzPatsFan said:

Do you mean the 8 year $64 million dollar deal for Clements? The Pats ALREADY PAY ASANTE that. Signing at 26, he would be 34 at the end of the contract and probably fading. But he would be in his prime for 7 of the 8 years. Or you could offer him $37 million as an option for an additional two last years when he was 35 and 36 and make it a nominal $100 million dollar contract, like the Clements contract. It would have exactly the same possibility of being exercised ..ZERO as the $16 million two year option that raised Clements contract to $80 million for the Agent to crow about and advertise for clients.

I fail to see why Asante is unsignable. Plus I expect Moss to be resigned and a major effort made for a Karlos Dansby. The money is there. I also expect Jabbar to sign and and Kelly and Rosey to renegotiate downward, and to sign. I'm unsure about Stallworth.

As to the others what do they have to do with 2008 or 2009? Worry about it but address it in 2010.

Do you even know what the projected CAP is for 2008? I uderstand it is not expected to be a great raise merely 4 or 5 million per year, but that covers a lot of signings,along with the excesscah fromthis year and the expected downward renegotiations, and pending retirements.

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OK , I'll admit I am far from a capologist and don't know what the cap is for 2008, but I think its as you say, 4 or 5 mm increase. Also, I don't take Asante's one year franchise tag as an indicator of future commitment...would be nice, but I see it along the same lines as Moss and Stallworth* 's one year deal, as in, let's see what we can get out of them for now and sign the mid tier guys to long term contracts, i.e. Welker, Morris, AD, Koppen, etc

Consider this though, if it allowed us to sign Moss and Gafney to 4 and 2 year contracts respectively, AND extend Green and Sanders, AND a Karlos Dansby (which, I don't know what basis there is for that projection, but I'll buy).... can you see the FO going for a Bly or Tillman at a significantly lower cost?

http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=DB&y=2008