Pondering the future of our LINEBACKER Position

RayClay said:

My unfortunate prediction is we will end up sticking a couple green rookies or JAGS into the lineup and the will stink because we didn't develop LBs years ago when we had a chance.

Of course I hope I'm wrong.

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Who knows maybe Woods and/or Alexander are developing into what we want .

Hey it's possible

emoney_33 said:

Who knows maybe Woods and/or Alexander are developing into what we want .

Hey it's possible

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I hope so. I like Woods myself. Problem is we need 2 ILBs right away and others LBs down the road.

We've got one UFA ILB for two spots, so if he succeeds we're still one short, if he fails, two. Woods is OLB and so is Thomas in my opinion.

I have watched David Harris and Patrick Willis start as rookies this year and do well. Just because Belichick will not pick a LB high in the draft does not mean that they are not out there.

RayClay said:

My unfortunate prediction is we will end up sticking a couple green rookies or JAGS into the lineup and the will stink because we didn't develop LBs years ago when we had a chance.

Of course I hope I'm wrong.

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I'm with you on this one. For the last 3 years I've been waiting for BB to draft a potential ILB replacement but each draft goes by with out any of those types of players being drafted. I think he should have already drafted a project ILB and had him study under the tutelage of Tedy so he'll be ready when he retires.

I hope I'm wrong (and I still love Tedy) but I don't see where the next big 3-4 ILB player is going to come from.

RayClay said:

I hope so. I like Woods myself. Problem is we need 2 ILBs right away and others LBs down the road.

We've got one UFA ILB for two spots, so if he succeeds we're still one short, if he fails, two. Woods is OLB and so is Thomas in my opinion.

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You are right that ILB position is gonna be really tough to fill. I hope we have something already we don't know about or we find a gem through the draft or FA this offseason.

emoney_33 said:

He's the one constant that I almost never see out of position or have a brainfart, aside from that whole pushing rodney over on the Addai catch and run.


Those hoping for that special player in the first round, don't hold your breath. It's not easy to find a college player capable of playing the 3-4 LB. Even a "special" player may not make an impact for a couple of years.

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Again I wrote that before the season, Vrabel has played great on the outside. He is so consistent and fundamentally solid (plus just a little bit ****y). Vrabs is my favorite, moving to the edge has made all the difference, happy to say I was wrong.

I think there is an LB that will be a special player potentially.

My choice would be to trade down to about 10-15 pick up a 2009 1st, 2008 2nd and 4th. And pick

Auburn DE/OLB Quintin Groves. He plays multiple positions which BB loves and this guy reminds me of an Adalius Thomas clone.

I'm not big on Laurinatius (sp?) because like many OSU LB'S I think this guy is not as versatile as Groves nor as fast.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfldraft/draft/tracker/player?id=11565

Report from NFLDraftscout.com

Quentin Groves, DS #3 OLB, Auburn [Submit Groves Info]

Name: Quentin Groves (+) Coming off foot injury
College: Auburn Number: 54
Height: 6-3 Weight: 250
Position: OLB Pos2: DE
Class/Draft Year: rSr/2008
40 Time: 4.46 40 Low: 4.40 40 High: 4.56
Projected Round: 1 Stock:
Rated number 3 out of 221 OLB's 14 / 2384 TOTAL

Draft Scout Snapshot: 13 GP; 13 GS; 35 TT, 11 TFL, 9.5 SK, 7 QBH, 3 FF; Coaches All-SEC First Team … AP All-SEC First Team in '06. 12 GP; 3 GS; 21 TT, 8 TFL, 6 SK, 1 PBU, 4 QBH, 1 FF; Coaches' Preseason All-SEC Third-Team in '05. 13 GP; 0 GS; 23 TT, 10 TFL, 7.5 SK, 4 QBH, 2 FF in '04. Redshirted in '03.
Draft Scout Quentin Groves News | Submit Quentin Groves News Here
11/27/07 - DE Quentin Groves has three sacks, seven tackles for loss, 35 tackles, 23 quarterback hurries and two forced fumbles this season despite missing two games and playing a limited role in two others because of three dislocated toes. He's seen more playing time at outside linebacker throughout the season and played there more than usual late in the season as Auburn looked for more ways to get Groves and DE Antonio Coleman on the field at the same time. He did come back to play an active role against Alabama with three tackles and three quarterback hurries.

11/24/07 - DE Quentin Groves has three sacks, seven tackles for loss, 32 tackles, 20 quarterback hurries and two forced fumbles this season despite missing two games and playing a limited role in two others because of three dislocated toes. He's seen more playing time at outside linebacker throughout the season and played there more than usual in the past two games as Auburn looks for more ways to get Groves and DE Antonio Coleman on the field at the same time. The results were mixed at best, with Groves struggling against both the pass and the run, so he's more likely be back in a more hybrid end/linebacker role this week.

11/13/07 - Auburn senior defensive end Quentin Groves was named one of the 10 finalists for the Awards and Recognition Association (ARA) Sportsmanship Award, which is given annually to one outstanding NCAA Division I football player who best personifies the spirit of sportsmanship. The 2007 Sportsmanship Award recipient will be chosen from one of the ten finalists (listed below) and announced this December. Finalists represent a variety of schools of all sizes and locations throughout the United States and award criteria take into consideration the athlete's conduct both on and off the field. This year's finalists are: Alex Brink (Washington State, QB), Jordan Brown (Houston, WR), Quentin Groves (Auburn, DE), Jacob Gutierrez (Oklahoma, RB), Dionte Johnson (Ohio State, FB), Thomas Keith (Central Michigan, LB), Micah Rucker (Eastern Illinois, WR), Jarrid Smith (Florida Atlantic, G), Jeremy Thompson (Wake Forest, DE) and Robert Vallentti (Iona, LT). - Auburn Sports

If the stories are true BB has coveted LBs early but they have been gone when it came time for the Pats to draft. I think Vilma was one of those, and Vilma is not a LB that we, as outside observers, would expect BB to want. He would seemed undersized for the Pats 3-4 scheme.

So if the stories regarding Vilma and BB are true it would prove that it is almost impossible to predict what BB is going to do regarding evaluating, drafting or signing LBs.

I also think that Vilma is going to be traded or outright released by the Jets after the season. It is obvious that he is not adjusting well to Mangini's coaching style.

Would he be an option for the Pats if he was released?

Wretch said:

If the stories are true BB has coveted LBs early but they have been gone when it came time for the Pats to draft. I think Vilma was one of those, and Vilma is not a LB that we, as outside observers, would expect BB to want. He would seemed undersized for the Pats 3-4 scheme.

So if the stories regarding Vilma and BB are true it would prove that it is almost impossible to predict what BB is going to do regarding evaluating, drafting or signing LBs.

I also think that Vilma is going to be traded or outright released by the Jets after the season. It is obvious that he is not adjusting well to Mangini's coaching style.

Would he be an option for the Pats if he was released?

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Yea I'm gonna stop assuming what I think BB would do or is even looking for and just hope he finds something good somewhere

I guess they pay the price for not developing LBs next year.

No one available and Seau will be what, 40?

They'll have to draft a few unless they just want to go with waiver wire guys.

cstjohn17 said:

I wrote that before the season started, nailed another one! Vrabel is my favorite current Patriot and I glad he is doing so well.

As usual my predictions are deadly accurate, let me lnow if you need any stock tips...

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the rest of your post was great--I should have given credit where it was due--but that did give me a chuckle...

In the draft Groves, and Goff are the only two we know are coming out that I believe would be very good in NE's system. I also believe Groves could have some hybrid ability simular to AD's.

Rey Maualuga I like a lot and he'd be my favorite if he decides to come out, but recently he's made his intentions of staying in school known.

Jasper Brinkley is someone who I think could also be an effective ILB for NE, and he'd come early day two, if he entered the draft. Jasper's made his intentions of returning in 2008 known, but it will be up to the NCAA.

In free Agency Karlos Dansby is the clear choice, but I'm not sure the Cardinals wouldn't franchise him. Do they have someone else in more need of the tag? If he enters free agency the Patriots should go after him.

Victor Hobson knows Mangini's version of the system, and he weighs enough (254lbs) but he's short at only 6'. Then again, Bruschi's really just under 6'1" so maybe Hobson could be a decent option.

There is an article in the Boston Globe today, linked on my site. That talks about LB and age...Old LB's is something goes back to Belichicks Brown's days..I don't think he believes in drafting LBs...

Not to mention did any of you/us geniuses think that Vrabel guy he picked up because Pittsburgh didn't see a reason to keep him would be a pro bowl caliber starter here at OLB with the capacity to move inside if needed?

No, I didn't think so...

Bill and Scott know things we don't. They have a seperate staff scouting the pros full time. A guy Joe fan and some other HC thinks is nothing on a mismanaged roster can project as a potential crown jewel in Belichick's scheme. The scheme takes into account not just what a position does in this system, but what a particular player's skill set can be worked around in conjunction with others to bring to the position. Sometimes Bill has a better read on these guys than they have opinions of themselves. Rodney was kind of fighting for that last contract somewhere with a washed up sign stuck to his back when he met with Bill at the Ground Round and before even asking how his health was, Bill said "we want you". And as a result he basically had Harrison at "hello". And we all know how that turned out.

MoLewisrocks said:

Not to mention did any of you/us geniuses think that Vrabel guy he picked up because Pittsburgh didn't see a reason to keep him would be a pro bowl caliber starter here at OLB with the capacity to move inside if needed?

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no...but I was definitely a little more bullish on rodney whateverhisnamewas than I probably should have been...

cstjohn17 said:

KFFL is wrong and I am right... well maybe not, but I am pretty sure that Vrabel is not an UFA until after the 2008 season (per Miguel who I trust above all others).

I also trust RotoWorld above must internet sites, they list these guys as FAs.
Victor Hobson Jets ILB 2/3/1980 27.6 6'0 252 Knows system http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...=910&sport=NFL
Clark Haggins Steelers OLB 1/10/1977 30.6 6'4 243 Pure OLB http://www.rotoworld.com/Content/pla...=689&sport=NFL
Chaun Thompson Browns ILB 5/22/1980 27.3 6'2 249 Hardly starting quality http://www.rotoworld.com/content/pla...rt=NFL&id=2591

I have been wrong for 5 years and won't stop now, the Patriots will draft a LB and a CB in the first 3 rounds of the 08 draft! (ok, prepare for OG, Punter and QB)

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I've tried to click the rotoworld links, but all that happens is "The page cannot be found." I'll take your word on those potential FAs. I'm relieved that Vrabel isn't one of them.

captain stone said:

I've tried to click the rotoworld links, but all that happens is "The page cannot be found." I'll take your word on those potential FAs. I'm relieved that Vrabel isn't one of them.

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The links in this original page work:
http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showpost.php?p=502365&postcount=10

MoLewisrocks said:

Not to mention did any of you/us geniuses think that Vrabel guy he picked up because Pittsburgh didn't see a reason to keep him would be a pro bowl caliber starter here at OLB with the capacity to move inside if needed?

No, I didn't think so...

Bill and Scott know things we don't. They have a seperate staff scouting the pros full time. A guy Joe fan and some other HC thinks is nothing on a mismanaged roster can project as a potential crown jewel in Belichick's scheme. The scheme takes into account not just what a position does in this system, but what a particular player's skill set can be worked around in conjunction with others to bring to the position. Sometimes Bill has a better read on these guys than they have opinions of themselves. Rodney was kind of fighting for that last contract somewhere with a washed up sign stuck to his back when he met with Bill at the Ground Round and before even asking how his health was, Bill said "we want you". And as a result he basically had Harrison at "hello". And we all know how that turned out.

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They have to be FA or traded for. So who is available in FA? And does a team really depend on being able to trade for guys on other rosters?

Vrabel was a FA. Harrison was a FA. Not too many FAs available this year, from what I've seen.

We're in position to get James Laurinitis this year, doubt we'll take him but atleast he'll be on the board when we're scheduled to pick.

ATippett56 said:

If he declares early, Ohio State linebacker James Laurinaitis would look good in a New England Patriots uniform.

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I said the EXACT same thing the year Andy Katzenmoyer came into the league and was drafted by the Pats