Sal Paolantonio opinion - agree or not?

OtisCampbell · Nov 26, 2007

makewayhomer said:
I'm really not even arguing that Hart > Bradshaw. the #'s say it's pretty close, but this thread was originally about being "overrated".

the fact that many people would tell you that Bradshaw is an all-time great, but that the vast majority of < 40 YO fans have no idea who Hart was means that Bradshaw is very, very overrated.

that doesn't mean he wasn't good, though.

I'm not sure how people not knowing Hart equates to Bradshaw being overrated, but I guess we'll just disagree here. Anyhow, I remember Hart; unfortunately I'm old enough to remember Y.A. Tittle, the second greatest bald quarterback ever

unoriginal · Nov 26, 2007

Paolantonio is just trying to make money off a worthless book. Don't fall for this ****.

godef said:
People make a lot about Favre breaking Marino's career TD mark. He is a good quarterback, borderline hall of fame (and this season's stats may bring him over the top), but his breaking the mark had as much to with longevity than with greatness. And the proof is in the fact that he broke the career INT mark just a few weeks after he broke the TD mark. Granted, only a decent QB can hold this INT record; a bad QB would not ever play enough to get that many (think how strike out records are always owned by the big sluggers--the INT mark is held by a big slinger). But still, it came too soon after his TD mark would makes his career TD/INT ratio too pedestrian.

Here is where Favre is at compared to four recent first-ballot Hall of Famers:

Code:

Name		G	Comp	%	YD	Y/A	TD	INT	[B]%[/B]	Rush YD
Steve Young	169	2667	64.3	33124	8.0	232	107	[B]2.17[/B]	4239
Dan Marino	242	4967	59.4	61361	7.3	420	252	[B]1.67[/B]	87
Brett Favre	252	5312	61.4	60856	7.0	436	281	[B]1.55[/B]	1768
John Elway	234	4123	56.9	51475	7.1	300	226	[B]1.33[/B]	3407
Warren Moon	208	3988	58.4	49325	7.2	291	233	[B]1.25[/B]	1736

I don't feel your argument is very strong.

TruthSeeker · Nov 26, 2007

OtisCampbell said:
These statistics are meaningless.

10 years of statistics is "meaningless".

I know what I saw with Terry Bradshaw - an above average QB playing on a great team.

I also know what I saw with Lynn Swann - a HoF player.

TruthSeeker · Nov 26, 2007

ColtinIraq said:
SB wins = very overrated

ColtinIraq said:

I cannot believe I just read this on a Pats message board.

Click to expand...

There are many of us who believe SB wins are very over-rated. And then there are the Andy Johnson's of the world who believe the opposite. That's OK; opinions vary widely even amongst fans of the same team.

primetime · Nov 26, 2007

ColtinIraq said:
I cannot believe I just read this on a Pats message board.

But, you see, we don't need SB wins as an indicator... not anymore.

RayClay · Nov 26, 2007

I'd love to have my pick of one of those for a big game.

Seriously, there's some really good QBs on that list.

I'm having a feeling I'd like his "sucks" list better than his choice list, bur since they suck, maybe I'd let him pick random QBs with minimum numbers of snaps.

Romo's the worst one on the list and he's still pretty good.

ColtinIraq · Nov 26, 2007

primetime said:
But, you see, we don't need SB wins as an indicator... not anymore.

Good to know. Now could you come on our board and let your "3 Rings" brethren know too?

JoeSixPat · Nov 26, 2007

1. Joe Namath: His legend has much more to do with his Super Bowl III performance and his prolific off-field antics than his career stats.

TRUE

2. Brett Favre: His image in the media has been hyperinflated to the good ol' boy routine, and that's why people like him.

FALSE

3. Terry Bradshaw: He was ultimately an average quarterback who was surrounded by the greatest cast of talent ever assembled on one NFL roster, including eight Hall of Fame players.

TRUE

4. Ken Stabler: His only accomplishment was winning the 1976 Super Bowl where the Raiders mostly ran and the defense stifled Fran Tarkenton.

UNDECIDED

5. Tony Romo: He barely made the team, and after one season of play he became a full-fledged superstar without really accomplishing anything to deserve it.

FALSE

Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

OtisCampbell · Nov 27, 2007

TruthSeeker said:
10 years of statistics is "meaningless".

I know what I saw with Terry Bradshaw - an above average QB playing on a great team.

I also know what I saw with Lynn Swann - a HoF player.

My point was that completion percentages, etc. are meaningless when one QB won 4 championships in that period and the other one probably never made the second round of the playoffs.

If statistics were all that important, Lynn Swann wouldn't be considered great. He had just over 300 catches in his career, but you say he is deserving of HoF. You want it both ways.

DB15 · Nov 27, 2007

overrated, try Steve Mcnair, that guy is awful and always has been

marty · Nov 27, 2007

Is it just me or isn't anyone else bothered by having Romo part of any history list? Comon Sal, the kid hasn't even played 1 full season yet!!!!

Pat the Pats Fan · Nov 27, 2007

PatsChick87 said:
Is it just me or isn't anyone else bothered by having Romo part of any history list? Comon Sal, the kid hasn't even played 1 full season yet!!!!

Exactly, Romo could end up being an obscure sports trivia answer.....to soon to even rate, over or under at this point in his career.....

makewayhomer · Nov 27, 2007

OtisCampbell said:
My point was that completion percentages, etc. are meaningless when one QB won 4 championships in that period and the other one probably never made the second round of the playoffs.

If statistics were all that important, Lynn Swann wouldn't be considered great. He had just over 300 catches in his career, but you say he is deserving of HoF. You want it both ways.

put Jim Hart on the Steelers, and Bradshaw on the Cardinals, and there is a good chance that Hart ends up with 4 rings and Bradshaw barely sniffs the playoffs.

that's why using SB rings as criteria is wrong

re: Swann, you do need to make era adjustments; back then guys didnt catch as many balls. however, yeah, he is overrated. his seasons among the top 10

Receptions: 1977-7t, 1978-7t
Receiving yards: 1975-8, 1977-4, 1978-7
Receiving TDs: 1975-1t, 1977-6t, 1978-2
Rush/Receive TDs: 1975-7t, 1978-5t
he made 3 Pro Bowls

compare this with another guy most here have never heard of, Harold Carmichael

Receptions: 1973-1, 1974-5
Receiving yards: 1973-1, 1978-3
Receiving TDs: 1973-4t, 1974-3, 1975-9t, 1977-6t, 1978-8t, 1979-2, 1980-4t, 1982-10t
Rush/Receive TDs: 1973-10t

he made 4 Pro Bowls

you could easily make the argument that Carmichael had a better career, but largely b/c Swann played on a team with a great defense, he got 4 cracks at the SB (and won all 4) instead of Carmichael who had 1

OtisCampbell · Nov 27, 2007

makewayhomer said:
put Jim Hart on the Steelers, and Bradshaw on the Cardinals, and there is a good chance that Hart ends up with 4 rings and Bradshaw barely sniffs the playoffs.

that's why using SB rings as criteria is wrong

Then you should address the second piece of the statement. Why is Lynn Swann in the HOF? Irving Fryar has more than twice as many catches. Swann probably is not in the top 100 in most statistical categories.

The Super Bowl ring is the primary objective of a football team and football players. I don't see how you shouldn't measure players against their primary objective. I'm not saying it is the only measurement, but it has to be a pretty important one.

He Ban Me · Nov 27, 2007

makewayhomer said:
and that is a big reason why he is overrated. people like his personality and his style, so they overrate his actual results. they WANT to love him

How can a guy with more TD passes than any other QB in the League be over rated??

Is Bonds overrated??

I understand he has thrown many ill advised passes, but the guy is the heaqrt and soul of the Packers. he embodies what that franchise is all about. He's a players player. Frustrated with the lack of talent around him the past few years, and just tried to do too much, but when he's on, he's the most exciting QB to watch as there ever has been.

makewayhomer · Nov 27, 2007

OtisCampbell said:
Then you should address the second piece of the statement. Why is Lynn Swann in the HOF? Irving Fryar has more than twice as many catches. Swann probably is not in the top 100 in most statistical categories.

Swann probably shouldn't be in the HOF, though comparing him to Fryar is wrong b/c of the differing era's they played in. guys today who put up Swann #'s (compared to other WR's) won't even sniff the HOF. but the HOF is very flawed... I mean how in the world is Art Monk not in the HOF? He set NFL records for most catches in a season (106) and career (940) and he also played on three Super Bowl championship teams! or what about Michael Irvin, who won 3 SB's and with FAR better comparative stats with the Cowboys?

OtisCampbell said:
The Super Bowl ring is the primary objective of a football team and football players. I don't see how you shouldn't measure players against their primary objective. I'm not saying it is the only measurement, but it has to be a pretty important one.

b/c winning a SB takes a t-e-a-m. is Trent Dilfer a great QB b/c he won a SB? Brad Johnson? Jeff Hostetler?

how many SB wins would Tom Brady have if he was drafted by the Lions?

makewayhomer · Nov 27, 2007

He Ban Me said:
I understand he has thrown many ill advised passes, but the guy is the heaqrt and soul of the Packers. he embodies what that franchise is all about. He's a players player. Frustrated with the lack of talent around him the past few years, and just tried to do too much, but when he's on, he's the most exciting QB to watch as there ever has been.

this stuff bring a tear to my eye, but it doesn't take away from the fact that he's been just a "good" QB for nearly 10 years now.

now, he certainly had a good and long career, but he's not a top 5 all time qb

OtisCampbell · Nov 27, 2007

makewayhomer said:
Swann probably shouldn't be in the HOF, though comparing him to Fryar is wrong b/c of the differing era's they played in. guys today who put up Swann #'s (compared to other WR's) won't even sniff the HOF. but the HOF is very flawed... I mean how in the world is Art Monk not in the HOF? He set NFL records for most catches in a season (106) and career (940) and he also played on three Super Bowl championship teams! or what about Michael Irvin, who won 3 SB's and with FAR better comparative stats with the Cowboys?

b/c winning a SB takes a t-e-a-m. is Trent Dilfer a great QB b/c he won a SB? Brad Johnson? Jeff Hostetler?

how many SB wins would Tom Brady have if he was drafted by the Lions?

Bradshaw won four Super Bowls, not one. Slight difference.

JJP · Nov 27, 2007

LloydBraun said:
...
4. Ken Stabler: His only accomplishment was winning the 1976 Super Bowl where the Raiders mostly ran and the defense stifled Fran Tarkenton.

Sal Pal should have written:

"4. Ken Stabler: His only accomplishment was being the quarterback for the Oakland Raiders during the 1976 AFC divisional playoff against the New England Patriots when a bogus roughing the passer penalty by referee Ben Dreith on Patriots tackle Ray "Sugar Bear" Hamilton nullified a third down incompletion and handed the Raiders the game."

makewayhomer · Nov 27, 2007

OtisCampbell said:
Bradshaw won four Super Bowls, not one. Slight difference.

and how many do you think he would have won on the St. Louis Cardinals of the 70s?

Sal Paolantonio opinion - agree or not?

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