Yankees considering Lowell at First and A-Rod at 3rd

JoeSixPat · Nov 14, 2007

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseba...s/2007/11/lowell_to_first.html?p1=MEWell_Pos4

One has to admit this is a bold move that, if it actually went down would show just how high a price tag the Yankees are putting on winning a world series...

Aside from the outrageous payroll commitment ($60 million to Lowell, $300 million to A-Rod) and the crow they'd have to eat after A-Rod screwed them out of $30 million the Texans would have paid of his salary as part of an extension - there is a logic in that they give up no players - only lots and lots of money - for those two

That would give them the prospects to go out and trade for some more pitching like Santana - and that would be a SERIOUS run for the championship

Of course, we've seen the Yankees spend the most amount of money in baseball for years so maybe nothing changes in the end.

Bigdogx · Nov 15, 2007

I don't understand the importance of 1 year, why the hell the sox need to stick to this 3 year crap is beyond me and is going to put them in a unnecessary bind with trying to fill that spot. Hell 6 other teams don't mind going to 4 years and really in baseball who gives a flying @#@$ with no cap involved! If their plan is moving Youk they are making a huge mistake, making any trades is going to involve us sending out players we don't want to part with but might end up being forced to because of this. I mean it's not like this guy helped win us a world series or anything, oh wait that's right he did and not to mention grabbing the MVP of the series on the way and the sox offer him a contract that we all know he does not want, he wants 4 years and to me he has earned it!

I hope Theo comes to his senses and signs him before another team does, if this was football i could understand it but in a non cap sport their is no excuse for not giving out a contract that someone has earned! If they can go out and ink drew for a long term contract then they have no excuse for letting this guy walk over 1 stinking year!

JoeSixPat · Nov 15, 2007

Bigdogx said:
I don't understand the importance of 1 year, why the hell the sox need to stick to this 3 year crap is beyond me and is going to put them in a unnecessary bind with trying to fill that spot. Hell 6 other teams don't mind going to 4 years and really in baseball who gives a flying @#@$ with no cap involved! If their plan is moving Youk they are making a huge mistake, making any trades is going to involve us sending out players we don't want to part with but might end up being forced to because of this. I mean it's not like this guy helped win us a world series or anything, oh wait that's right he did and not to mention grabbing the MVP of the series on the way and the sox offer him a contract that we all know he does not want, he wants 4 years and to me he has earned it!

I hope Theo comes to his senses and signs him before another team does, if this was football i could understand it but in a non cap sport their is no excuse for not giving out a contract that someone has earned! If they can go out and ink drew for a long term contract then they have no excuse for letting this guy walk over 1 stinking year!

I generally agree - though I'm in the minority who thinks that if it takes a 4th year, its worth it even if we eat that 4th year salary.

That's always the risk you take with any contract in baseball - and although teams do have their own "caps" the Sox haven't reached theirs yet.

And although I'm also in the minority of those who factor in the Yankees agenda to my recommendations of off season moves, when you can make yourself stronger and your main opponent weaker, that's generally what I consider a good two-fer move - that might even justify the extra $15 million.

I don't doubt that's what the Yankees are thinking in this situation.

Sign A-Rod, Sign Lowell - take the TWO top tier free agent third basemen off the market, and weaken the Sox while also pushing them to make a trade that will give up their pitching prospects to gain a third baseman.

Meanwhile the Yankees, keeping their prospects while filling holes at first and third - as well as in the clubhouse leadership void - still have their prospects to trade for a guy like Santana.

All this is taboo thinking around because many feel its bad baseball policy to make moves with your competitors in mind - but to me its a chess game and always has been.

scout · Nov 15, 2007

I'm not sure that this isn't some form of baiting going on by the Yankees, simmilair tactic employed by the Sox (yea we want Clemons). The Yankees are going to take the all-time defensive third baseman and play him at first and give him a four year deal. While still feeling the sting of the Damon deal.

JoeSixPat · Nov 15, 2007

scout said:
I'm not sure that this isn't some form of baiting going on by the Yankees, simmilair tactic employed by the Sox (yea we want Clemons). The Yankees are going to take the all-time defensive third baseman and play him at first and give him a four year deal. While still feeling the sting of the Damon deal.

I just don't think the Yankees feel a money sting - and they, like all teams, know that players aren't always worth their contracts in baseball

Seems like they've got some interest in trading Damon as I thought they would, and again can always pay a portion of his salary to make a deal happen.

I do agree however that paying Lowell $60 million and then changing his position raises some question as to how smart that is - and whether he'd sign with them because of it.

But overall I feel like what's driving the Yankees on this is a desire to address fielding and batting without giving up any prospects so they can deal prospects for starting pitching..

And that's not a bad strategy - it costs a lot of money yes, but this way they get the most number of best players available.

everlong · Nov 15, 2007

I understand the Yankees wanting to take Lowell away from the Soxs because it weakens their biggest rival but putting him at first is a waste. Lowell's offense was great this year but it was a career year. He's more likely to fall back to the 2006 level which is still decent but his real value is leadership in the clubhouse and defense. The Yankees already have a solid clubhouse and by moving him to first you lose his glove at 3rd. Arod is great fielding 3B as well so I'm not suggesting that you move him and Lowell would probably become a great fielding 1B as well but I think the Yankees would be better served doing other things.

TomBrady'sGoat · Nov 15, 2007

On the A-Rod going back to the Yankees, that would suck. He's worth the money now and even when he's no longer worth it he'll still be a good player. He won't be Jason Giambi making 20M on the bench. The Yankees can afford to be overpaying a good player in years 6-10.

On Lowell, the Yankees putting him at first would be moronic. I don't believe they're that stupid.

A lot of his value comes from him playing 3rd. He supplies good defense at 3rd and his bat is much better when compared to replacement 3B than replacement 1B. He has never played 1B, so who knows what his defense will be like over there. Add to this that he doesn't project to hit nearly as well in Yankee Stadium as Fenway and it just makes no sense. Oh, and the Yankees would be giving the Sox their first round pick.

The reason the Sox don't want to give him 4 years is because they don't want to give him 3. It's one thing to suck it up and add a 3rd year you're afraid he won't be very good during. Adding another is just silly. The fact that Lowell doesn't exactly have a great track record, peaked as a "good but not great" player, and doesn't project to be the type of guy who ages well makes offering him a 4 year deal a bad idea. It's yet another reason why the Yankees putting him at 1B for 4 years is an awful idea.

I don't believe the Lowell speculation for a moment. As for A-Rod, it just doesn't make sense. It's way too early to have a good idea what he'll get elsewhere (most guys sign in December, not the week after they can start negotiating). The only way this makes any sense is for A-Rod to really love playing in NY (who doesn't love getting booed and attacked by the local papers daily?), for him to be really pissed at Boras, and for him to have no problem looking like a weak Boras puppet throwing himself at the Yankees. Color me skeptical until a contract is signed.

Foley · Nov 15, 2007

Most people were unhappy they let go Mark Loretta. Most were unhappy they let Damon go. Most were unhappy they let Pedro go. Within 2 years they have found superior replacements to all three via trade or the farm system. How many huge mistakes has this FO made? How many times did people say something was a huge mistake? The FO knows more about baseball than the fans, and if they have reason to believe that Lowell isn't worth 4 years then they won't sign him to that.

alexthered · Nov 15, 2007

Don't know about Lowell, but it sounds like Arod is staying...As for Lowell, I like him, but not for anything more than a 2-3 years,
http://skinnymoose.com/sports/2007/11/15/arod-staying-in-the-bronxwho-else-can-pay-him/

patsfanofNC12 · Nov 15, 2007

I think it would be a dumb move just for the fact that you take away a gold glove defensive third baseman, and make him a first baseman

scout · Nov 15, 2007

Foley said:
Most people were unhappy they let go Mark Loretta. Most were unhappy they let Damon go. Most were unhappy they let Pedro go. Within 2 years they have found superior replacements to all three via trade or the farm system. How many huge mistakes has this FO made? How many times did people say something was a huge mistake? The FO knows more about baseball than the fans, and if they have reason to believe that Lowell isn't worth 4 years then they won't sign him to that.

Your right, Theo has made some mistakes, but overall he's done a great job. Who would have thought they would have lived to see a championship let alone two. If Lowell goes, I'm guessing Theo has a back-up plan in place.

JoeSixPat · Nov 15, 2007

Foley said:
Most people were unhappy they let go Mark Loretta. Most were unhappy they let Damon go. Most were unhappy they let Pedro go. Within 2 years they have found superior replacements to all three via trade or the farm system. How many huge mistakes has this FO made? How many times did people say something was a huge mistake? The FO knows more about baseball than the fans, and if they have reason to believe that Lowell isn't worth 4 years then they won't sign him to that.

And how many center fielders have we had since Damon left?

Real World · Nov 15, 2007

scout said:
I'm not sure that this isn't some form of baiting going on by the Yankees, simmilair tactic employed by the Sox (yea we want Clemons). The Yankees are going to take the all-time defensive third baseman and play him at first and give him a four year deal. While still feeling the sting of the Damon deal.

There's no sting to the Damon deal. If the Yankees have one resource that they don't care about, it's money. Damon could be dealt to a number of different teams if they wanted. The Yanks don't want to move him though, because lead off hitters are a difficult find in todays game. Damons got 2 years left which isn't a significant committment. I do agree with you about Lowell to the Yankees being a ploy. I'd be shocked if the Yankees would be interested in Lowell at all, w/o ARod even, cuz of his mediocre .270 career average at Yankee Stadium, and the significant differences in his road and home splits with the Sox. His swing doesn't translate into Yankee Stadium production, and moving a GG 3B to first seems dumb if he isn't going to hit particularly well in your park. Add to that the fact that the Yanks signed Posada to a 4 year deal at age 36, and you'd like to think the last year or two would mean time at 1B & DH for Posada. I think the Yanks are simply trying to drive up price, and interest, so as to make life more difficult for the RedSox.

Real World · Nov 15, 2007

Foley said:
Most people were unhappy they let go Mark Loretta. Most were unhappy they let Damon go. Most were unhappy they let Pedro go. Within 2 years they have found superior replacements to all three via trade or the farm system. How many huge mistakes has this FO made? How many times did people say something was a huge mistake? The FO knows more about baseball than the fans, and if they have reason to believe that Lowell isn't worth 4 years then they won't sign him to that.

They've won 2 world series the last 4 years, but don't say they haven't made mistakes in the process. Edgar Renteria, Julio Lugo, Matt Clement, JD Drew, Coco Crisp, Eric Gagne, and giving up Cla Meredith to reaquire a back up catcher they traded away. Again, the bottom line has been terrific, but they've made some blunders too. Blunders that teams not named the Yankees & RedSox can't afford to make.

Real World · Nov 15, 2007

scout said:
Your right, Theo has made some mistakes, but overall he's done a great job. Who would have thought they would have lived to see a championship let alone two. If Lowell goes, I'm guessing Theo has a back-up plan in place.

If he leaves they'll just move Youk over to 3rd, and find a 1B.

Foley · Nov 15, 2007

JoeSixPat said:
And how many center fielders have we had since Damon left?

They were without a decent CF for two years. They certainly could have found a better stopgap, but I don't think anything that happened with the CF situation the past two seasons was a huge mistake.

Real World said:
They've won 2 world series the last 4 years, but don't say they haven't made mistakes in the process. Edgar Renteria, Julio Lugo, Matt Clement, JD Drew, Coco Crisp, Eric Gagne, and giving up Cla Meredith to reaquire a back up catcher they traded away. Again, the bottom line has been terrific, but they've made some blunders too. Blunders that teams not named the Yankees & RedSox can't afford to make.

They've made mistakes, but not many of them were that significant.

Giving up on Renteria after one year was a stupid mistake. It takes more than a year to evaluate things, so Lugo and Drew are too early to tell (at this time last year trading for Beckett and letting Damon go were both deemed big mistakes). Clement was fine before he had a massive shoulder injury, not a great signing but not a huge mistake. Crisp obviously never became what they expected offensively, but so far they have actually got the better end of that trade with Cleveland. Gagne and Bard/Meredith are really the only two really big mistakes that had no redeeming value.

IcyPatriot · Nov 15, 2007

I think it's time for the Red Sox to let Lowell go. A 4 year contract is crazy ... even a 3 year contract is crazy. For $15 million I want a pitcher not a freakin 3rd baseman who has not consistently had good years.

Lars Anderson will be with the team in another year...Youk can go to 3rd then let Chris Carter play 1st for now. Either Lars or Chris will be better than average hitters playing in Fenway. We can use the Lowell $$$ on the bullpen for now.

TomBrady'sGoat · Nov 15, 2007

F.B.N. said:
I think it's time for the Red Sox to let Lowell go. A 4 year contract is crazy ... even a 3 year contract is crazy. For $15 million I want a pitcher not a freakin 3rd baseman who has not consistently had good years.

Lars Anderson will be with the team in another year...Youk can go to 3rd then let Chris Carter play 1st for now. Either Lars or Chris will be better than average hitters playing in Fenway. We can use the Lowell $$$ on the bullpen for now.

I agree with you on the first part.

As for Anderson, he just turned 20 and has only one year in A ball. He needs at least two more years in the minors, probably more. Chris Carter is supposed to be a butcher defensively.

I think the way this ends up being resolved may involve Carter as part of a platoon or as part of a tryout (similar to '03 when J Giambi, Ortiz, and Millar fought for the 1B and DH jobs). Maybe they give Tony Clark another shot. Maybe they bring in Mike Lamb. I agree that they're probably better off with a short-term solution.

JoeSixPat · Nov 15, 2007

F.B.N. said:
I think it's time for the Red Sox to let Lowell go. A 4 year contract is crazy ... even a 3 year contract is crazy. For $15 million I want a pitcher not a freakin 3rd baseman who has not consistently had good years./QUOTE]

Everything about baseball contracts is crazy... its crazy that so many people thought throwing a 10 year $300 million contract at A-Rod was a wise thing to do.

But the market is what the market is - and guranteed contracts doubly suck - but that's what we've got.

On Youk at third though, I'm not so sure why the "experts" are so opposed. He worked hard to learn third, and then worked hard to learn 1st... and now we might need him back at third.

I'm pretty confident he can adjust and do a great job.

patsfanofNC12 · Nov 19, 2007

Reports say Skankies aren't going to sign Lowell, and have no more intrest in him.

Lowell still holding out for a four year contract, and I feel we should just give it to him already.

Yankees considering Lowell at First and A-Rod at 3rd

Pro Bowl Player

On the Game Day Roster

Pro Bowl Player

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Pro Bowl Player

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Rookie

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

Pro Bowl Player

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Wall of Fame

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

Pro Bowl Player

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

Similar threads