Just the Facts, Ma'Am

Maybe the less-knowledgeable among us (including most of these newly-empowered trolls) should look in here before they open the hole in their face.

1) The patriots were warned not to use video during a game, and they did it anyway. They deserve an appropriate punishment.

2) Stealing signals isn't against the rules. The Pats aren't in trouble for "cheating." They violated a league rule against having a camera on the sidelines and filming the other team. If a player makes a horse collar tackle, he gets flagged for 15 yards. However, if the tackler grabs a leg before making the same horse collar tackle, he's fine. We're talking "method" vs. "result" here. In the case of the video, the method is against the rules, whereas the result (stealing signals) is not. Let's keep some perspective on that.

3) The tape was confiscated in the first quarter. Whatever advantage some people think the Pats would have gained at halftime is rendered moot by this oft-unmentioned point.

4) The Commish's office has said nothing official.

5) We have no idea what's actually on the tape.

Feel free to add your own, so long as they are facts. No conjecture, please.

The rest of your points are great and logical but the last two make you sound like Baghdad Bob.

oldskool138 said:

The rest of your points are great and logical but the last two make you sound like Baghdad Bob.

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The Bigfoot thing I'll give you , but what's wrong with #4 and #5?

Here are the questions we need answers to before any judgement can be passed:

1. why were the patriots (allegedly) videotaping the sidelines?
2. why did the patriots (allegedly) continue to videotape the sidelines after being told by the league not to?

Those are really the only facts that matter to me. And we don't have those answers yet.

Fixit said:

The Bigfoot thing I'll give you , but what's wrong with #4 and #5?

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4. The Commissioner's Office is coming out by the end of the week with its ruling. Yes, we don't know exactly what Goodell will say but based on how he's handled other problems thus far how do you think he'll come down on this issue I think you can speculate with a fair amount of accuracy because of the warnings issued to the league and the Pats in particular against exactly this sort of thing.

5. Honestly, what do you think is on the tape? And to tell you the truth, it really doesn't matter. There was a guy with Pats credentials on the sideline taping something...which is in violation of the rules.

oldskool138 said:

4. The Commissioner's Office is coming out by the end of the week with its ruling. Yes, we don't know exactly what Goodell will say but based on how he's handled other problems thus far how do you think he'll come down on this issue I think you can speculate with a fair amount of accuracy because of the warnings issued to the league and the Pats in particular against exactly this sort of thing.

5. Honestly, what do you think is on the tape? And to tell you the truth, it really doesn't matter. There was a guy with Pats credentials on the sideline taping something...which is in violation of the rules.

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So, you're saying that both #4 and #5 are accurate.

I already said that they should be punished for having a camera on the sidelines. But what's on the tape is definitely relevant, because it gives us the why.

Fixit said:

They deserve an appropriate punishment, which I believe should be commensurate with Denver's when they cheated on the cap.

And people calling for a forfeit are idiots.

The Commish's office has said nothing official.

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Sorry but I don't believe the statements you made above are facts. The last item I left above could be a fact but we don't know who league source is that provided the info that came out yesterday. It does not appear to have been from Goodell or Aiello but it could still be somebody from the Commissioner's office.

Yeah, I noticed that a minute ago. I'll remove.

As for what's on the videotape, probably this



(Sorry, this is speculation.)

Apparently, the notorious photo of the guy with the video camera on the Jets sideline is not the Patriots, Mat Estrella. Estrella was supposed to be wearing a vest over a blue polo shirt and was standing on the Patriots sideline.

So who was that guy with the Jets and why isn't he committing a violation as well for using a video camera from the sideline?

Tony Cahncuhd said:

Apparently, the notorious photo of the guy with the video camera on the Jets sideline is not the Patriots, Mat Estrella. Estrella was supposed to be wearing a vest over a blue polo shirt and was standing on the Patriots sideline.

So who was that guy with the Jets and why isn't he committing a violation as well for using a video camera from the sideline?

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Excellent question.

Is there really no hearing on Friday? The Commissioner has not issued a definitive statement. He won't and shouldn't. There will alot that we will never know.

We all make believe that this action is only about vidoetaping. Personally, I just don't think so. Belichick has had many, many run-in's with the league, and shows little public respect for their rules, officials or authority.

mgteich said:

Is there really no hearing on Friday? The Commissioner has not issued a definitive statement. He won't and shouldn't. There will alot that we will never know.

We all make believe that this action is only about vidoetaping. Personally, I just don't think so. Belichick has had many, many run-in's with the league, and shows little public respect for their rules, officials or authority.

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He's our little anti-hero.

Fixit said:

He's our little anti-hero.

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If our draft picks don't mean anything, why don't the Pats just tell the NFL they choose to opt out of the draft altogether? This is a serious violation. There will be serious consequences that will hurt the team's ability to make deals with other teams to get players they need. This team is very old and Brady has a bum shoulder-- he has even admitted it. We are limiting our ability to stay competitive in the future. There should be a serious punishment handed down to the ringleader, Belichick.

Cannon Arm said:

There should be a serious punishment handed down to the ringleader, Belichick.

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And that would help keep us competitive how?

At least this thread started well. It didn't take people long to ruin a "facts" thread with speculation and opinion.

I've been saying this from the get-go. We know a Pats employee had a camera on the sidelines, and that the camera (w/ tape) was confiscated. We know that team cameras are not allowed on sidelines. We don't really know anything else.

Cannon Arm said:

If our draft picks don't mean anything, why don't the Pats just tell the NFL they choose to opt out of the draft altogether? This is a serious violation. There will be serious consequences that will hurt the team's ability to make deals with other teams to get players they need. This team is very old and Brady has a bum shoulder-- he has even admitted it. We are limiting our ability to stay competitive in the future. There should be a serious punishment handed down to the ringleader, Belichick.

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So OK then, we'll have more money to spend on free agents.

In last weekends Packers game with the Eagles the network guys picked up on the fact that the Eagles were shrouding their defensive signal caller with two towels - quite elaborate setup.

On a 3rd and one they showed the towels covering the defensive coach from two sides, front and offensive huddle side. There was no way for the Packers to steal the call. Favre threw a pick on that play.

So if the Packers were trying to steal the calls with binoculars or a camera with a telephoto lens or just a guy with a scratch pad and a good memory or with a video camera with a telephoto lens placed in a legal part of the stadium, it's perfectly okay?

What horse crap.

Cannon Arm is just a troll pretending to be one of us. His name is a reference to the Peyton Manning commercial that he wears a moustache and describes himself and says "that Manning guy is pretty good,etc.."

Fixit said:

And that would help keep us competitive how?

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Last time I checked, neither of the HCs in the Super Bowl last year or the year before were named Bill Belichick. Belichick is replaceable. There are a lot of great assistants and coordinators who could succeed here. We have many great pieces to building a championship team.