Post Game Thread Week 7 Pats @ Steelers

long distance · Oct 23, 2016

Deus Irae said:
Solder's deal is up after 2017, so an extension would lower his number, which is currently scheduled to be about $11.1m.

Thomas is at $10m exactly for each of the 2017 and 2018 seasons.

Vollmer's deal already gives him a cap hit of $5.2m this year, so taking a restructured Solder and Thomas would make a $4m or less addition.

Cannon's deal is up after this season, so the Patriots could look for a cheaper backup moving forward, if they chose.

Are you really trying to say that the Patriots couldn't make that work?

a) This transaction would first mean you'd need to find at least some 5M of cap space (I don't know the exact number Miguel suggests for a cap space you need to have at all time to be on the safe side during the season but I guess its over 5M) .. so f.e. you'd need to find a trade partner for Cannon at his 4.7M cap hit. He is the only one around 5M range you can cut without significant dead money in 2017 except for Bennett which I guess you'd like to keep. So .. is that realistic?

b) For 2017 you would have two tackles at 21M (an extension to Solder might or might not happen) increasing the OL budget (f.e. Cannon goes) for more than 5M. Is this the way BB does business?

c) They have an already difficult math situation to sign big FAs (Hightower, Bennett, Collins, Sheard + RFA Butler). They will have an estimated 70M in cap space but apart from big FA's they'll need it to sign a number of middle range FA's as well + drafted rookies (this time also 1 rder) and others to fill the roster.

I love Joe, but i don't think its a real possibility. Sometimes (many times in fact if you follow Pats under BB) the guys that are great and loved must be admired in other uniforms. BB brought Dante to increase value (of playing) on the guys that are here. That was his way of boosting the OL.

Deus Irae · Oct 23, 2016

long distance said:
) This transaction would first mean you'd need to find at least some 5M of cap space (I don't know the exact number Miguel suggests for a cap space you need to have at all time to be on the safe side during the season but I guess its over 5M) .. so f.e. you'd need to find a trade partner for Cannon at his 4.7M cap hit. He is the only one around 5M range you can cut without significant dead money in 2017 except for Bennett which I guess you'd like to keep. So .. is that realistic?

Your numbers are off.

aluminum seats · Oct 23, 2016

robertweathers said:
When he dropped that 3rd down throw I longed for Dion Lewis

Or James White, who, you know, was actually in the game today.

patchick · Oct 23, 2016

Froob said:
Tomlin is such a dumbass, always aggressive at the wrong time. Goes for 2 all day but, won't go for it with 5 to go down 2 scores and only one timeout? Wtf?

And how about the fact that they had squandered the timeouts to begin with? Or the ill-advised 54-yard FG attempt?

10 years as an NFL head coach, and he still seems stuck on Game Management 101.

Deus Irae · Oct 23, 2016

long distance said:
b) For 2017 you would have two tackles at 21M (an extension to Solder might or might not happen) increasing the OL budget (f.e. Cannon goes) for more than 5M. Is this the way BB does business?

Yes, in fact it is.

Jangles · Oct 23, 2016

FourierSeries said:
I expect a post from the resident Rhodes Scholar, "PatriotsPimp," about how the Patriots defense sucks and how they have no pass rush, even though they were only rushing 3 all game.

That would be noteworthy if they were blanketing receivers in the secondary

Which wasn't the case

long distance · Oct 23, 2016

Deus Irae said:
So, some off the wall thinking...

Trade for Thomas
Move Solder to RT
Move Mason to C
Put Jackson at RG
Deal with the growing pains for the rest of the regular season
Profit come the playoffs

Captain Stone is suggesting Mason at C for months. I would be intrigued. But he missed TC and didn't practice at C so its difficult to envision this year. It also depends when and in what shape Jackson returns. Pitty Cooper didn't work out. If both were healthy during TC I guess we would see a Solder-Thuney-Mason-Cooper-Cannon/Fleming line that some of us suggested in spring.

The rest is nice daydreaming.

Palm Beach Pats Fan · Oct 23, 2016

Thuney took a few preseason reps at center, right? If Andrews declines or gets hurt, I think it would be Thuney or Karras, not Mason, at C.

The_Riddler · Oct 23, 2016

Bottom line is an 11 point win, only giving up 16pts to an explosive offense, who I consider to be the 2nd best team in the AFC, Ben or no Ben, on the road, in their house. We made uncharactertic mistakes which allowed this to be closer than it should have been. We are 6-1 and looking at the 1-seed and frozen playoff trips for the rest of the AFC to Foxboro in January, I'll take it. Ravens, Colts and Jets still hovering around in their piss poor to mediocre bowl of soup, Justice Served, I'm good....

Mac&Barmore FTW · Oct 23, 2016

fnordcircle said:
I love posts like these because it highlights the bizarro world some people live in.

We, as a collective fanbase, would have sucked a million ****s to have a CB of his caliber in the dark times between Samuel and Talib.

Don't ever tell me what I would or would not put in my mouth for adequate cornerback play.

Ross12 · Oct 23, 2016

It's a bit of a conundrum. White remains almost purely a receiving back and doesn't give you much at all rushing. Bolden, as his backup, is a bit better rushing but is just too inconsistent in the passing game. He sticks around in part thanks to special teams prowess, but lately that hasn't been good either.

Do you cut him when Lewis comes back? You would lose a bit of talent on special teams but a much better rusher and pass catcher. However, Lewis is injury prone and could get hurt again, so I would hope they keep Foster rostered also.

Cutting Bolden and keeping Blount-Lewis-White-Foster makes the most sense to me. I think Foster will get a little more useful with time and will also improve next year with an offseason to try to bulk up a bit more.

long distance · Oct 23, 2016

Bolden is a tough cookie to swallow .. that's for sure

long distance · Oct 23, 2016

Deus Irae said:
Your numbers are off.

well .. show me the money!

VJCPatriot · Oct 23, 2016

If Dion Lewis comes back healthy, cutting Bolden is a no-brainer if there's no other roster move available. Bolden is no more than a 3rd string backup in this offense.

Anyways back to the game. We got the win, on the road, in Pittsburgh. That is the most important take away from today's game. We also are in very strong position for the #1 seed in the AFC and post-season bye at this point. Because we own the tie-breaker vs the Steelers.

Our defense played pretty well considering we gave up the ball twice in our own territory. To hold the Steelers to 16 is a very good job given the circumstances.

Tomlin can go ahead and whine all he wants, the Pats beat the Steelers fair and square on the road. Ok so they had to play without Big Ben, guess what, we were without Brady for 4 games. So it all evens out. Who else can challenge us in the AFC? The Oakland Raiders? Come on, they really need to prove a lot still.

The Texans? We would own the tiebreaker against them as well. The Chiefs or Broncos? Those guys need to get past the Raiders first, as crazy as that sounds.

Patriots are in excellent position coming up on the halfway point of the season. Having the Bye Week on Week 9 actually helps us out as well. It allows our veterans to get healthy/healthier midway through and then we buckle down for the rest of the season.

I'm loving our chances so far! Go Pats!

lillloyd · Oct 23, 2016

My $.02 from the opposing side:

I feel like Pitt played about as well as could be expected. Aside from the awful RZ pick, Landry was far better than I could have hoped (particularly in the first half.) We missed a lot of opportunities in the red zone and off of turnovers, but really this was to be expected....Landry Jones is still Landry Jones, and was never going to be as efficient in situational football as Ben typically is.

Defense is the bigger issue. We just don't have the horses to cover Gronk/Bennett out of a base D (who does?!) So we stayed in nickel or dime pretty much the entire game, and naturally Blount was eventually able to gash those sets. Frankly our approach held up much longer than I expected -- Pitt's D actually got a bit of pressure along with some stops, and generally was able to hang in there for 3 quarters. But the bottom line is that it's pick-your-poison with the Pats, and IMO our late 3rd/early 4th Q defensive collapse was pretty inevitable.

There's part of me that's encouraged by the way our guys hung in there, and what that may mean for later in the season. Pitt could theoretically have Ben, Marcus Gilbert, Wheaton, Ladarius Green, Eli Rogers (out today), and a healthy Sammie Coates back on offense over the stretch run. I have to believe that those guys could have made a significant difference in converting 3rd downs and RZ chances today.

But here's the problem: our defensive matchup issues with NE will NOT change, regardless of who's in there on D. A healthy Heyward and Shazier would help...but ultimately no matter how well we scheme and execute, there will still be times that a Robert Golden-type will end up isolated on Gronk. It's unavoidable; there are no hidden Luke Keuchlys or Earl Thomases on this roster.

So the bottom line is that in any rematch, the Pats will score a TON of points, and any returning starters we'd get would likely be more than offset by the fact that the game would be at Gillette, where the Pats are unlikely to be as (uncharacteristically!) sloppy with drops, turnovers, etc. as they were today.

Throw in the fact that BB would have a full game tape on what Pitt did this time around, and the odds turn even more strongly in your favor. Our only hope would be to outscore you in a shootout -- theoretically possible, but still a pretty dubious approach in your place, where we'd need a nearly perfect game.

Anyway...congrats on the win, and good luck the rest of the way. Maybe with some luck on our end, we'll get another crack at this in early '17.

lillloyd

The Gr8est · Oct 23, 2016

lillloyd said:
My $.02 from the opposing side:

I feel like Pitt played about as well as could be expected. Aside from the awful RZ pick, Landry was far better than I could have hoped (particularly in the first half.) We missed a lot of opportunities in the red zone and off of turnovers, but really this was to be expected....Landry Jones is still Landry Jones, and was never going to be as efficient in situational football as Ben typically is.

Defense is the bigger issue. We just don't have the horses to cover Gronk/Bennett out of a base D (who does?!) So we stayed in nickel or dime pretty much the entire game, and naturally Blount was eventually able to gash those sets. Frankly our approach held up much longer than I expected -- Pitt's D actually got a bit of pressure along with some stops, and generally was able to hang in there for 3 quarters. But the bottom line is that it's pick-your-poison with the Pats, and IMO our late 3rd/early 4th Q defensive collapse was pretty inevitable.

There's part of me that's encouraged by the way our guys hung in there, and what that may mean for later in the season. Pitt could theoretically have Ben, Marcus Gilbert, Wheaton, Ladarius Green, Eli Rogers (out today), and a healthy Sammie Coates back on offense over the stretch run. I have to believe that those guys could have made a significant difference in converting 3rd downs and RZ chances today.

But here's the problem: our defensive matchup issues with NE will NOT change, regardless of who's in there on D. A healthy Heyward and Shazier would help...but ultimately no matter how well we scheme and execute, there will still be times that a Robert Golden-type will end up isolated on Gronk. It's unavoidable; there are no hidden Luke Keuchlys or Earl Thomases on this roster.

So the bottom line is that in any rematch, the Pats will score a TON of points, and any returning starters we'd get would likely be more than offset by the fact that the game would be at Gillette, where the Pats are unlikely to be as (uncharacteristically!) sloppy with drops, turnovers, etc. as they were today.

Throw in the fact that BB would have a full game tape on what Pitt did this time around, and the odds turn even more strongly in your favor. Our only hope would be to outscore you in a shootout -- theoretically possible, but still a pretty dubious approach in your place, where we'd need a nearly perfect game.

Anyway...congrats on the win, and good luck the rest of the way. Maybe with some luck on our end, we'll get another crack at this in early '17.

lillloyd

Thanx lilloyd, always appreciate your perspective on things.

I was very impressed with Cobi Hamilton. I thought he played well in the absence of your other receivers, but I wonder if Brown catches that long pass down the right side that Hamilton couldn't.

Deus Irae · Oct 23, 2016

long distance said:
well .. show me the money!

Team currently has about $9m+ in space, according to Miguel, btw.

Now, assuming you make the move after the Buffalo game (bye week), it would be for 8 games.
Thomas' base for 2016 is $8.3m
Half of that would be $4.15m
Then you'd be cutting a player in order to make space for Thomas, unless an injury opened a spot, in which case you'd be adding $4.05m instead of a lesser number. Either way, you'd be looking at less than $4m difference, not $5m, leaving the Patriots with $5m+ in cap space, with half the season left to play.

JMC00 · Oct 23, 2016

I know it's pff but Butler was the only CB to be graded over 90 (92.0) so far this week with only tonight's and tomorrow's games left.

Mike the Brit · Oct 23, 2016

lillloyd said:
My $.02 from the opposing side:

I feel like Pitt played about as well as could be expected. Aside from the awful RZ pick, Landry was far better than I could have hoped (particularly in the first half.) We missed a lot of opportunities in the red zone and off of turnovers, but really this was to be expected....Landry Jones is still Landry Jones, and was never going to be as efficient in situational football as Ben typically is.

Defense is the bigger issue. We just don't have the horses to cover Gronk/Bennett out of a base D (who does?!) So we stayed in nickel or dime pretty much the entire game, and naturally Blount was eventually able to gash those sets. Frankly our approach held up much longer than I expected -- Pitt's D actually got a bit of pressure along with some stops, and generally was able to hang in there for 3 quarters. But the bottom line is that it's pick-your-poison with the Pats, and IMO our late 3rd/early 4th Q defensive collapse was pretty inevitable.

There's part of me that's encouraged by the way our guys hung in there, and what that may mean for later in the season. Pitt could theoretically have Ben, Marcus Gilbert, Wheaton, Ladarius Green, Eli Rogers (out today), and a healthy Sammie Coates back on offense over the stretch run. I have to believe that those guys could have made a significant difference in converting 3rd downs and RZ chances today.

But here's the problem: our defensive matchup issues with NE will NOT change, regardless of who's in there on D. A healthy Heyward and Shazier would help...but ultimately no matter how well we scheme and execute, there will still be times that a Robert Golden-type will end up isolated on Gronk. It's unavoidable; there are no hidden Luke Keuchlys or Earl Thomases on this roster.

So the bottom line is that in any rematch, the Pats will score a TON of points, and any returning starters we'd get would likely be more than offset by the fact that the game would be at Gillette, where the Pats are unlikely to be as (uncharacteristically!) sloppy with drops, turnovers, etc. as they were today.

Throw in the fact that BB would have a full game tape on what Pitt did this time around, and the odds turn even more strongly in your favor. Our only hope would be to outscore you in a shootout -- theoretically possible, but still a pretty dubious approach in your place, where we'd need a nearly perfect game.

Anyway...congrats on the win, and good luck the rest of the way. Maybe with some luck on our end, we'll get another crack at this in early '17.

lillloyd

Thanks, lillloyd. I saw a tough, talented team that fought hard and gave the Pats everything they could handle, despite having a boatload of injuries. You'll be around in the post-season and I only hope that, if you end up playing the Pats, we'll have home field advantage.

Ring 6 · Oct 23, 2016

TBR said:
The concern is how all those yards will translate to points come playoff time once the games are being played against teams with competent, top QBs.

Those yards don't get added to other games. They only count in the games and situations they occur in

Post Game Thread Week 7 Pats @ Steelers

Pro Bowl Player

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Pro Bowl Player

Moderatrix

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

PatsFans.com Supporter

Pro Bowl Player

Pro Bowl Player

2nd Team Getting Their First Start

On the Game Day Roster

Moderator

Pro Bowl Player

Pro Bowl Player

Pro Bowl Player

Third String But Playing on Special Teams

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club

Pro Bowl Player

Minuteman Target

PatsFans.com Supporter

Similar threads