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FWIW...and other thoughts


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patfanken

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...on this beautiful Sunday in NE.

1. I think the reason for this post is the fact that NEXT Sunday we will actually have some live football to talk about. I'm just starting early.

2. Major hopes for this week of practice:
a. Both Stallworth, and Seymour get on the field for real practice time, even if I don't expect them to play in the first exhibition game.
b. We get some feedback that Asante Samuel will be back in camp within 10 days
c. Pierre Woods will continue to impress
d. We get word that Moroney will be ready for contact by the 2nd exhibition game
e. Everyone else stays healthy.

3. Most important things to look for on Friday... IMHO
a. how far back Rodney Harrison is. Are all we getting at this point is his mind and leadership skill, or is he going to be a factor rather than a liability in the pass defense. Over the course of preaseaon, it
will be interesting to see if the Pats pull Rodney when they put in their nickel and dime packages in pure passing situations.

b. I want to see where Brady and his receivers are at this point of camp. I know they will only play a couple of series, but it will be interesting to see if they are meshing. Perhaps for that reason Brady might play a bit more in the early exhibition games to try and develop more cohesion with his new receivers.

c. I want to see if I can notice any appreciable diffence in the running attack with the "new" zone blocking schemes the Pats are trying to implement. Clearly they will be doing different things, I just want to see if the casual observer can notice a difference. BTW-Nice story in the papers on that subject today.

d. I want to see significant improvement from Matt Cassell We still get some unsettling reports about happy feet and slow decisions from camp. I want to see a much smoother, calmer, professional performance out of Cassell. Rohan got to this point too, but couldn't take the next step, and now he's gone. Does the future hold the same fate for Cassell. It is critical for Cassell show us this improvement or we will be at risk at back up QB

e. Finally, I'll be taking a close look at the secondary. I want to see how the OTHER CB's play. Can Gay and/or James be legitimate alternatives if Samuel is gone? How far has Ellis Hobbs progressed from his strong finish last season? Is Sanders REALLY the future SS, and IS Merriweather worth a guaranteed $7MM

That's a lot to look for so I'm hoping I'm hoping that there will be a LOT of replays in this game. :D

4. I'm begining to think that Troy will start the season on PUP along with Jackson. I'm just wondering if at this point Troy is nothing more than insurance in case of several injuries to the WR corps. It actually works out well this way. He got his contract and will be paid this year. He is part of the team, yet I wonder if at this point of his career he is nothing more than a spare part and he got the gig more on who he was, rather than what he can currently do.

5. Can anyone tell me WTF Brady Quinn is THINKING???? Or for that matter what ANY of these rookie holdouts are thinking. They are being offered contracts that were unthinkable just a decade ago, and they turn their noses at them like they were spit. What is it that Merriweather got, $7MM guaranteed for being the 24th pick. That's nuts for a kid that never played a down, and Quinn is risking his entire first year because he wants MORE. :mad:

IMHO He is basically saying that I'm going to be a bust and I need as much as I can get in my first contract because I'm never going to see another one. That can be the only reason, Quinn in particular. Just by signing the current Cleveland offer he will make more than half the league's starting QBs, even though he is unlikely to play much in his first year....so whatever he makes this year he basically stole. That's NUTS.

He's worried about his paycheck if he becomes the franchise QB 4 or 5 years from now???? Hey Brady, get a EFFIN' clue. IF, and right now thats a BIG IF, you become a franchise QB, then you will get BOATLOADS of additional money to go along with the obscene amount of money you got when you signed your rookie contract,when you become a FA or extend your contract. Here's a novel thought. How about trying to EARN the money on the field. AND where is Charlie Weiss in all this, did he suddenly lose Quinn's cell number??? BTW- Did I mention the current system is NUTS!

6. Poor Romeo Crennell. He deserved better than the mess he inherited over in Cleveland. He's also had some horrid luck with injuries losing Wislow and Bently for most of his tenure. Now they invest not only a first round pick this year on a loser of a QB, they lose their first pick NEXT year as well.

I can only think back to the fact that if Tony FRIGGIN Romo had caught the damned ball it would have been the Pats that Cleveland would have been talking to, and the Pats would now have both Merriweather AND Cleveland's #1 pick plus whatever else Dallas got. (IIRC I think it was Cleveland's 2nd round pick)

7. I think the coverage we are getting from camp couldn't be better. From the guys and gals who honor us with their first person impression on practise like the redoubtable Mrs B, to Sean and Pats1, it is great. Not only that I think the guys at PFW have done an equally good job on the Patriots.com web sign with their blogs and podcasts. Really, when you think back to what he had to read and listen to, just a few years ago, you realize how far we have come.

8. File this under "close calls, but if the Pats hadn't had the China trip cancelled they would now be getting ready to pack for a trip that would have taken them from Boston to Seattle to Beijing a round trip journey of approximately 18 THOUSAND miles. :eek:uch:

9. File this under "things that make you go HMMMMM". We are all thinking of how important it is that we get off to a good start...right. Well maybe we shouldn't. Think about it. In 2001, we started off 1-3, in 2003 it was 2-2, and the end result were 2 superbowl banners. On the other hand in 2002 we started off 3-0, and again in 2006 we started off 4-1 and we all know that those seasons turned out to be much less satisfying.

Now it is true that we have the anomaly of having us start out with 6 straight wins in 2004, but if we have to concider THAT fact, there would be less of a reason to go HMMMM....wouldn't it? ;)

10. If Samuel isn't in camp in the next 10 days, then if I'm Pioli, I'm on the phone to the Jets and Vikings seriously looking to do a trade for one of THEIR disgruntled CBs.
 
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Re: FWIW....and other thoughts

Excellent stuff, as ever, Ken. The situation with the secondary is my big question mark as well. It will be interesting to see what the starting quartet actually is. I'm guessing at Hobbs, Gay/Wilson, Meriweather and Harrison.

#5 drives me nuts as well. Guys who haven't played a single down in the NFL act as if they are all-pros. I don't get why vets don't put more pressure on the NFLPA to sort it out, because it is money not going into the pockets of guys who have proven themselves.

I second #7. The coverage has been awesome and the hard work everyone has done is really appreciated.
 
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Re: FWIW....and other thoughts

Top stuff as per usual Ken!
 
Re: FWIW....and other thoughts

Good stuff man! But about your things that make you go HMMM part....in 2004 we did start out 6-0 and IMO this was our most dominant season, I remember watching games and thinking that there was no way Pats were gonna lose cause we would just crush weaker teams and even dominate the elite teams (except that first Pittsburg game of course). Anyways the team we got now reminds me of 2004 team :rocker:
 
Re: FWIW....and other thoughts

Major hopes for this week of practice:
a. Both Stallworth, and Seymour get on the field for real practice time, even if I don't expect them to play in the first exhibition game.
b. We get some feedback that Asante Samuel will be back in camp within 10 days
c. Pierre Woods will continue to impress
d. We get word that Moroney will be ready for contact by the 2nd exhibition game
e. Everyone else stays healthy.

Don't think that the Asante feedback will occur.
I'd like to see Dave Thomas set foot on the sidelines with the other PUPies.
 
Re: FWIW....and other thoughts

He's worried about his paycheck if he becomes the franchise QB 4 or 5 years from now???? Hey Brady, get a EFFIN' clue. IF, and right now thats a BIG IF, you become a franchise QB, then you will get BOATLOADS of additional money to go along with the obscene amount of money you got when you signed your rookie contract,when you become a FA or extend your contract. Here's a novel thought. How about trying to EARN the money on the field. AND where is Charlie Weiss in all this, did he suddenly lose Quinn's cell number??? BTW- Did I mention the current system is NUTS!

PFT raised a good point about Quinn holding out so that he can ensure that his contract is fair in the event he becomes the starting quarterback. Earth to Brady, ALL first round picks are expected to become starters within a few years of being drafted, if not immediately. Teams aren't paying millions of dollars in guaranteed money to players who have never played a down in the NFL so that they can warm the bench for the next five years. the idea that he needs to overide the first round contract system to ensure a starter's contract is ludicrous. The system is already built to play these players as if they are to become starters.

And furthermore, if Quinn becomes the Pro Bowl, franchise quarterback that he thinks he will be, the team will be more than willing give him an extension with 20-30 million in quaranteed money a few years from now.

patfanken said:
9. File this under "things that make you go HMMMMM". We are all thinking of how important it is that we get off to a good start...right. Well maybe we shouldn't. Think about it. In 2001, we started off 1-3, in 2003 it was 2-2, and the end result were 2 superbowl banners. On the other hand in 2002 we started off 3-0, and again in 2006 we started off 4-1 and we all know that those seasons turned out to be much less satisfying.

I like to give an amen to this. Fans freak out if teams stumble out of the starting gate, when in reality getting off to a fast start is one of the most irrelevant and overrated things when it comes to going deep into the playoffs and winning the Superbowl. I remember how fans were ****tting themselves when we got walloped 31-0 on opening day by the Bills in 2003. People were saying that Belichick made a huge mistake by letting Milloy go and that he had lost control of the team. This was only compounded when the Patriots lost to the terrible Redskins team three weeks later to start the season 2-2. Then they ran the table the rest of the way. I know I sound like a walking cliche, but it's not how you start, it's how you finish. It is a long season, and how many tmes have we seen seen teams come hot out of the gate only to sputter by the end. And didn't the 2001 Patriots start out the season at 5-5 and then run the table the rest of the way?

Even in 2004 when the Patriots started out 7-1, the quality of football the team was playing was not as high as that of later in the season. It is a Belichick trademark to start out a little sloppy and unpolished and refine the team's play as the season goes on.

patfanken said:
10. If Samuel isn't in camp in the next 10 days, then if I'm Pioli, I'm on the phone to the Jets and Vikings seriously looking to do a trade for one of THEIR disgruntled CBs.

I don't care when Samuel reports as long as it's before the first regular season game. He's played in this system for his whole career so I don't think we really need to worry about him getting the training camp experience in or anything like that.
 
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Re: FWIW....and other thoughts

...on this beautiful Sunday in NE.

I can only think back to the fact that if Tony FRIGGIN Romo had caught the damned ball it would have been the Pats that Cleveland would have been talking to, and the Pats would now have both Merriweather AND Cleveland's #1 pick plus whatever else Dallas got. (IIRC I think it was Cleveland's 2nd round pick)

No, they wouldn't. Had Meriweather been around when the Eagles picked, they would have picked him, so there is essentially no way the Pats would have ended up with both Cleveland's first in 2008 and Meriweather.
 
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Re: FWIW....and other thoughts

3. Most important things to look for on Friday... IMHO
a. how far back Rodney Harrison is. Are all we getting at this point is his mind and leadership skill, or is he going to be a factor rather than a liability in the pass defense. Over the course of preaseaon, it
will be interesting to see if the Pats pull Rodney when they put in their nickel and dime packages in pure passing situations.

This is a huge question, and as much as I'd love to see Rodney on every down, it is great that we think Sanders is the future and can plug him in there on passing downs.
 
Re: FWIW....and other thoughts

As far as Asante goes, I can see him sitting until he gets what he wants. If Calvin Johnson can get that contract and never even play in the NFL, then Samuels probably feels he has earned what he is asking for. And to be honest, much as I want this team whole, I can see his point. You eventually have to pay, one way or another someone will.
Hopefully they learned from this like they did about free agency this year. Get the first offers in before some team blows its wad and raises the ceiling for the everyone.
 
Re: FWIW....and other thoughts

No, they wouldn't. Had Meriweather been around when the Eagles picked, they would have picked him, so there is essentially no way the Pats would have ended up with both Cleveland's first in 2008 and Meriweather.

Actually you are right...thanks for raining on my parade. I though musing was like day dreaming, you didn't have to deal with reality. ;)

But you bring up an interesting supposition. Lets assume Romo got the snap down and the Pats get the #22 pick. Lets assume they know that if they make the trade, Merriweather is unlikely to make it to 28. Lets assume the Browns offer the same deal. The Pats give up the 22 and they get the Browns #35 and next year's first round pick. Would they have done it?

If you think about it, the Pats would have had the best chance they are going to get in a long time to draft in the top 10. Also since the eagles picked 26th, and if Merriweather was their target all along, and knew that the Eagles would grab him at 26. We could then have traded up with the Panthers for the 28 with the Panthers using the 28th pick and perhaps a 3rd and 5th to get the deal done. We still get Merriweather PLUS have a pick at the TOP of the second round (a great value slot). Beason was very likely to be there at 28, so everyone is happy (actually Carolina is thrilled to get their man and pick up extra picks TWICE).

The end result of that is that we get Merriweather, have a great value pick at #36, (maybe a David Harris or Woodly) AND have a likely top 10 pick in next year's draft. All we lose in the #3 we traded in to next year. We still wind up with Moss and all the rest of the camp fodder we drafted except Oldenberg. Are you going to miss him??? ;)

OR we could have simple stayed at 28 and 35 and drafted one of a number of excellent OL prospects (ie Staley) or if we picked Woodly AND Harris, everyone here would have probably been thrilled (except me, because I really wanted a DB. ;) )

Any of those possibilities would have been very interesting....if only Romo could put the DAMNED ball down.
 
Re: FWIW....and other thoughts

Ken--you can daydream all you want, but it seems a bit unfair to blame Romo for a failure that he couldn't possibly have prevented. :)

OR we could have simple stayed at 28 and 35 and drafted one of a number of excellent OL prospects (ie Staley) or if we picked Woodly AND Harris, everyone here would have probably been thrilled (except me, because I really wanted a DB. ;) )

Any of those possibilities would have been very interesting....if only Romo could put the DAMNED ball down.

This raises an interesting point: from what we know of Belioli's mindset, it would appear that, as far as value goes, SF's 1st in 2008 + 4th in 2007 > any player that was left at #28. Do you think there is someone the Pats would have been willing to take at #35 that they wouldn't have been willing to take at #28?

And, of course, who's to say that the Eagles wouldn't jump up to #23 or #24 to get Meriweather?
 
Re: FWIW....and other thoughts

Ken--you can daydream all you want, but it seems a bit unfair to blame Romo for a failure that he couldn't possibly have prevented. :)

"....COULDN'T POSSIBLY PREVENTED", excuse me?! This was totally Romo's fault and totally preventable. The snap was good and he actually caught the ball. What he did was fumble the ball while he was bringing it down. I don't condemn players for physical mistakes, but I DO acknowledge them. Romo F'd up, plain and simple.

This raises an interesting point: from what we know of Belioli's mindset, it would appear that, as far as value goes, SF's 1st in 2008 + 4th in 2007 > any player that was left at #28. Do you think there is someone the Pats would have been willing to take at #35 that they wouldn't have been willing to take at #28?

I'm not sure what you are asking. If this hypothetical were real the Pats would have BOTH the 28 and 35, unless they traded one of the 2 to move up

And, of course, who's to say that the Eagles wouldn't jump up to #23 or #24 to get Meriweather?

They could have done it for real on draft day, but they didn't. Also the Eagles didn't have the ammunition that the Pats would have they had gotten into a bidding war for the Dallas or Panther pick
 
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