The Terrance Knighton case

Brady6 · Aug 27, 2016

Deus Irae said:
Combine numbers are all that matter. They really don't even need to play the games, because they could just run the numbers to determine the winner.

Do they not indicate a players talent level? You are always so eager to troll.

Deus Irae · Aug 27, 2016

Brady6 said:
Do they not indicate a players talent level?

No, they do not. Or, rather, they may sometimes serve as an indicator, but they often do not. If it was really about the numbers, no team would ever miss on a draft pick.

Brady6 said:
You are always so eager to troll.

You apparently don't know what "troll" means.

Brady6 · Aug 27, 2016

Deus Irae said:
No, they do not.

You apparently don't know what "troll" means.

Why do they do the combine every year? Why do players drop in the draft if they perform poorly at a combine?

A troll to me is someone who parades around the board making snide remarks instead of an educated response.

Any way I don't have time to fight with you about athletic metrics not being indicative of a professional athletes talent level, I have to go fold my laundry. Have a terrific evening!

Deus Irae · Aug 27, 2016

Brady6 said:
Why do they do the combine every year?

They do the combine in order to get baseline data on physical ability, to get interviews, and to watch the players in person.

Brady6 said:
Why do players drop in the draft if they perform poorly at a combine?

Players drop for many reasons. Malcolm Butler was a UDFA in the same draft year that Kyle Fuller and Justin Gilbert were first round draft picks.

Brady6 said:
A troll to me is someone who parades around the board making snide remarks instead of an educated response.

Like I said, you apparently don' t know what troll means. Also, my response was educated. I've been following football for decades, and I've seen the difference between a workout warrior and a great football player often enough to know that they are not one and the same. In sport after sport, we see the difference between basic physical ability and talent for the sport.

This can't be news to you.

Fencer · Aug 27, 2016

Deus Irae said:
You apparently don't know what "troll" means.

Correct. A troll is somebody who wants to stimulate discussion. (The usage stems from the fishing sense of the word, not the mythical monsters.) You typically deploy snark to try to cut discussion off.

50-yard-line · Aug 27, 2016

Brady6 said:
What a ridiculous assertion by some guy on an Internet forum referring to 1 of 2000 men who play football at the highest level in the world.

He isn't an elite NFL player but as our #4 DT we could do a lot worse..

We certainly could. The question is, though, could we do better?

If they keep four at DT, I think they would go with Brown, Johnson, Valentine, and one of Knighton/Branch

If five, would it be Kuhn or the other one of Knighton Branch?

Remember, Flowers is kicking inside on passing downs. Sheard can, too.

boy, what a good problem for BB to have.

long distance · Aug 27, 2016

patfanken said:
I think there is a strong case for BB's contention that he used the Carolina game as a chance to get a close look at a lot of young guys. Remember he had ERoberts and Valentine in there to start the game. On the other hand his seeming lack of impact this preseason is telling. It could just be that he's just not as good as the guys that are playing (Johnson, Valentine, and Kuhn)

Or maybe BB's seen enough of him in camp and on film to know what he has in Knighton, and doesn't see the need to waste preseason snaps on him. He is what he is. There is another case that speculates that Branch, Valentine and Knighton have a redundant skill set and we don't need 3 of them in the rotation, and either Branch or Knighton will be the odd man out.

Finally in Knighton's defense is that this defense is still very very young and there is a case for Knighton's vet leadership being a reason for keeping since Branch's in-house suspension seems to indicate there isn't much leadership expected from him.

Maybe its the - somewhat curious - case of finding in Valentine what they searched in Knighton.
What Valentine is improving to show in preseason games probably surprised even BB & MP.
With a new DT math opening up they wanted to check the stamina (strength, motor, concentration) and consistency of VV, and a last good look of Kuhn, A Johnson, so they're not cutting the wrong guy(s).

Brady6 · Aug 28, 2016

Deus Irae said:
They do the combine in order to get baseline data on physical ability, to get interviews, and to watch the players in person.

Players drop for many reasons. Malcolm Butler was a UDFA in the same draft year that Kyle Fuller and Justin Gilbert were first round draft picks.

Like I said, you apparently don' t know what troll means. Also, my response was educated. I've been following football for decades, and I've seen the difference between a workout warrior and a great football player often enough to know that they are not one and the same. In sport after sport, we see the difference between basic physical ability and talent for the sport.

This can't be news to you.

Like I said have a terrific night.

Brady6 · Aug 28, 2016

50-yard-line said:
We certainly could. The question is, though, could we do better?

If they keep four at DT, I think they would go with Brown, Johnson, Valentine, and one of Knighton/Branch

If five, would it be Kuhn or the other one of Knighton Branch?

Remember, Flowers is kicking inside on passing downs. Sheard can, too.

boy, what a good problem for BB to have.

I think if they were not planning on keeping Branch they would have just released him when they suspended him. I could be wrong though.

50-yard-line · Aug 28, 2016

Brady6 said:
I think if they were not planning on keeping Branch they would have just released him when they suspended him. I could be wrong though.

We all could be wrong. It's BB!

mosi's man · Aug 28, 2016

The reason he hasn't been let go may be his obvious landing place: Denver. If he's released that is the logical place for him to return. They have had some injuries, have familiarity. I wonder if BB isn't trying to find him a home away from Denver.

micronin127 · Aug 28, 2016

When a player is withheld from a game it can mean that a trade is in the works. At least in baseball when the trade deadline approaches, pitchers sometimes get scratched, basically so they don't go out and hurt themselves.

We'll see. All three outcomes still possible: trade, cut, make team.

PatsWickedPissah · Aug 28, 2016

I was SO excited during his signing.
I will be equally excited when he departs this summer...
because it means we have younger players of quality to fill the DT roles.
PotRoast is a good guy and from NE. I wish him the best except at Denver or NY.

RayClay · Aug 28, 2016

Nice multi vids of Valentine looking good and a couple "needs to improve.

Film Review: Rookie DT Vincent Valentine is way ahead of schedule

bbobbo · Aug 28, 2016

Fixit said:
You should feel bad about not making this thread title "The Curious Case of the Missing Pot Roast."

how about, "Stick a Fork In It, the Pot Roast is Done"?

BradyFTW! · Aug 28, 2016

RayClay said:
Nice multi vids of Valentine looking good and a couple "needs to improve.

Film Review: Rookie DT Vincent Valentine is way ahead of schedule

Great read, thanks for linking. Definitely shows why the coaching staff must be optimistic about Valentine. He's inconsistent and inexperienced, but the physical tools are there. As a draft pick he reminds me a bit of Ron Brace in 2009: DT picked higher than the draftniks expected, partly because the technique and conditioning weren't totally there. The physical tools are undeniable, though, and Valentine's definitely putting his to good use. Hopefully his career goes in the opposite direction that Brace's did. Great combination of strength, burst off the line when called for, and ability to anchor down and clog up running lanes. He's still a ways off, but he has a chance to develop into a special player.

strngplyr · Aug 28, 2016

Brady6 said:
What a ridiculous assertion by some guy on an Internet forum referring to 1 of 2000 men who play football at the highest level in the world.

He isn't an elite NFL player but as our #4 DT we could do a lot worse..

It's not a ridiculous statement, he wasn't comparing Kuhn to the 7 billion people on earth, but to the 2000 NFL players.

strngplyr · Aug 28, 2016

Brady6 said:
Do they not indicate a players talent level? You are always so eager to troll.

They don't even come close to indicating a PLAYER's talent level.

There are football players and there are elite athletes (for their size). Sometimes the two combine at an extreme level.

Theres a certain widereceiver (athlete) from the 2006 Patriots draft that embodies this perfectly.

Another certain 2013 1st round WR (athlete) that some wish we had instead of #91 (all world athlete who is also a player).

Edit: There was also a certain QB that performed pretty horrendously in the 2000 NFL Combine in a bunch of athletic measurements, he's done OK for himself.

Brady6 · Aug 29, 2016

strngplyr said:
It's not a ridiculous statement, he wasn't comparing Kuhn to the 7 billion people on earth, but to the 2000 NFL players.

Of all the posts in this thread you involve yourself in this one?

Brady6 · Aug 29, 2016

strngplyr said:
They don't even come close to indicating a PLAYER's talent level.

There are football players and there are elite athletes (for their size). Sometimes the two combine at an extreme level.

Theres a certain widereceiver (athlete) from the 2006 Patriots draft that embodies this perfectly.

Another certain 2013 1st round WR (athlete) that some wish we had instead of #91 (all world athlete who is also a player).

Edit: There was also a certain QB that performed pretty horrendously in the 2000 NFL Combine in a bunch of athletic measurements, he's done OK for himself.

We drafted #91 largely based on his athletic ability because he didn't even play LB and was on a terrible team in college. If athletic ability does not matter why did we draft Edelman? He was such a great WR in college? Oh wait he was QB.

There is nothing more ridiculous than suggesting a professional athletes workout results do not indicate talent level. That's like saying a bus driver should not be judged based on their drivers test.

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