What Kraft Should Have Done Last Year, re: Deflategate

What Kraft should have done was make sure the commissioner was actually "a person of unquestioned integrity" rather than a pathological liar. He backed him through scandal after scandal and now he's reaping what he sowed. If he had seen the error of his ways and abandoned his support of the Omissioner, he could be forgiven. Instead he's doubled down on his support, and lost this fan, and many, many others forever.

PatsFanSince74 said:

Kraft bashing is a politically correct (for Pats fans) way of venting frustration, even when we (and, by "we, " I mean "I") say stuff that we know is, well, kind of irrational, like suggesting he should have announced in San Francisco that he was going to sue the League. Of course that was never going to be viable, but it's a safe way to voice frustration.

Let's face the facts. We can't say things like:

Damn it, Tom, it was a really dumb idea to destroy your phone even if Wells told you he didn't need it any more. Didn't you realize how bad it would look even if it represented a completely innocent activity?

Damn it, McNally, you knew that doing anything but taking the balls directly to the field from the Officials' room was a violation of game day protocol and that the Patriots have a target on their back every Sunday. i don't care if you were only in there for 100 seconds and you had to take a piss that was so wicked you were going to wet your pants. Why didn't you just take them to the field first even it mean you had to change your clothes?

Damn it, Tom, McNally, Jastremski even though we all believe that your text exchanges were completely innocent didn't you realize how bad they would look if all of a sudden you're exchanging text after text when normally you hardly ever have any text contact with each other? And, the whole "deflator" thing didn't help things much either...

So, we continue to bash Kraft because even suggesting that any of the other principals in this whole mess made very serious errors only gets you flamed...which I am expecting to happen to me in...
five...
four...
three...
two...
one...
seconds.

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I'm not interested in bashing Bob at all; I'm trying to help. I'm not a lawyer or professionally trained in P.R., however there's tons I can say now that would completely exonerate all those guys above, and also Bill for supposedly "ignoring" the league memo that went out about videotaping; practical, simple facts that are NEVER HEARD in the endless analyses in print, radio and TV media.

ReverendMaynard said:

What Kraft should have done was make sure the commissioner was actually "a person of unquestioned integrity" rather than a pathological liar. He backed him through scandal after scandal and now he's reaping what he sowed. If he had seen the error of his ways and abandoned his support of the Omissioner, he could be forgiven. Instead he's doubled down on his support, and lost this fan, and many, many others forever.

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Maybe you're right. I still think he's doing his best, and we shouldn't give up on him yet. I don't think it's over.

Actual Pats Fan said:

Maybe you're right. I still think he's doing his best, and we shouldn't give up on him yet. I don't think it's over.

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Oh, he's doing his best all right. Doing his best at making it seem like he has the best interests of the team in mind when, in fact, those interests take a backseat to the interests of his wallet, and that of the 32's. Doing his best to make sure there are no impediments to those goals, whether moral or legal, by any means necessary.

ReverendMaynard said:

Oh, he's doing his best all right. Doing his best at making it seem like he has the best interests of the team in mind when, in fact, those interests take a backseat to the interests of his wallet, and that of the 32's. Doing his best to make sure there are no impediments to those goals, whether moral or legal, by any means necessary.

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I understand your anger. He is a businessman, and not trained to handle any of this stuff.

I personally, today am not close to forgiving him for his complicity in needlessly ruining our real logo and uniforms. The entire premise of the "need" for destroying our logo and uniforms was faulty, and actually malevolent and asinine in its ignorance.

Actual Pats Fan said:

I understand your anger. He is a businessman, and not trained to handle any of this stuff.

I personally, today am not close to forgiving him for his complicity in needlessly ruining our real logo and uniforms. The entire premise of the "need" for destroying our logo and uniforms was faulty, and actually malevolent and asinine in its ignorance.

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Keep fighting the good fight, then.

ReverendMaynard said:

What Kraft should have done was make sure the commissioner was actually "a person of unquestioned integrity" rather than a pathological liar. He backed him through scandal after scandal and now he's reaping what he sowed. If he had seen the error of his ways and abandoned his support of the Omissioner, he could be forgiven. Instead he's doubled down on his support, and lost this fan, and many, many others forever.

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Ok - I was going to do a thread on this. I was thinking after folks were pointing out how the Saints owner did nothing after Bountygate. But, to be fair, that happened at a time when the NFL was under tremendous pressure regarding player safety and concussions. And then you have a team that is doing what the Saints did. Bad optics, bad timing so the owner really could not do much when Goddell came down.

AND THEN IT HIT ME!!

Why are the owners letting Goddell still run things when a friggin' howler monkey could a better job. The answer - Concussions. I would bet that when the **** was hitting the fan, Roger agreed to be the fall guy for the NFL owners if things went real bad. And now, he's sitting on a ton of internal documents that show the NFL and the owners, conspired and lied about the dangers to keep their profits margins. There's a quid pro quo that says "If we ever wind up in a really bad spot (picture player dying on the field) then Goddell will isolate the owners and take the hit".

If they try to dump him, he goes public.

Actual Pats Fan said:

I'm not interested in bashing Bob at all; I'm trying to help. I'm not a lawyer or professionally trained in P.R., however there's tons I can say now that would completely exonerate all those guys above, and also Bill for supposedly "ignoring" the league memo that went out about videotaping; practical, simple facts that are NEVER HEARD in the endless analyses in print, radio and TV media.

Click to expand...

I notice that you are relatively new to the Board and you seem thoughtful and well-intentioned. (Welcome to the Board, BTW.)

So, if you can produce and state in a couple of simple, declarative sentences a single, relevant, substantial and credible fact* that has "NEVER" been "HEARD" in any of the thousands of threads and hundreds of thousands of posts that have been produced on these subjects by people on this Board since the Jets game in 2007 and the Indy game in the playoffs two years ago, I will immediately nominate yours for "Post of the Year."

*
"a couple of simple, declarative sentences," i.e., not a post so long that it takes an hour to figure out what you might be saying...and even then it's kind of not clear. (we have a lot of that out here)

"relevant," i.e., directly related to what are commonly referred to as Spygate or Deflategate.

"substantial," i.e., a fact that would make a difference to the public perception, not something which would get the reaction" gee, I didn't know that," but which doesn't change anything.

"credible," i.e., something that you have sourced (a link would be nice) from a reliable observer and not something believable that you're just making up. Most of us have our theories...

"fact," i.e., something tangible and not just a suggested motivation or bias of one party or the other.

Kraft should sue the league and call for Goodell to be fired.

PatsFanSince74 said:

Kraft bashing is a politically correct (for Pats fans) way of venting frustration, even when we (and, by "we, " I mean "I") say stuff that we know is, well, kind of irrational, like suggesting he should have announced in San Francisco that he was going to sue the League. Of course that was never going to be viable, but it's a safe way to voice frustration.

Let's face the facts. We can't say things like:

Damn it, Tom, it was a really dumb idea to destroy your phone even if Wells told you he didn't need it any more. Didn't you realize how bad it would look even if it represented a completely innocent activity?

Damn it, McNally, you knew that doing anything but taking the balls directly to the field from the Officials' room was a violation of game day protocol and that the Patriots have a target on their back every Sunday. i don't care if you were only in there for 100 seconds and you had to take a piss that was so wicked you were going to wet your pants. Why didn't you just take them to the field first even it mean you had to change your clothes?

Damn it, Tom, McNally, Jastremski even though we all believe that your text exchanges were completely innocent didn't you realize how bad they would look if all of a sudden you're exchanging text after text when normally you hardly ever have any text contact with each other? And, the whole "deflator" thing didn't help things much either...

So, we continue to bash Kraft because even suggesting that any of the other principals in this whole mess made very serious errors only gets you flamed...which I am expecting to happen to me in...
five...
four...
three...
two...
one...
seconds.

Click to expand...

Do you think Jerry would have let this happen to Tony Romo? He needs to get his Al Davis on and fight the system.

Brady did NOTHING wrong. Why should he give his phone to any employer? It's his phone, not a company phone, that's infringing on his privacy. Also considering all of the leaks you would have to be an IDIOT to give his phone to the NFL.

Kraft could not have done anything to make this outcome different.. he was damned from the onset. The die was cast for #12... and nothing could have made things different.

The NFL would not have allowed him to measure the PSI in the balls..

There is no need for Mr. Kraft to have done anything different, the NFL monitored the inflation rates of the balls last year and refused to release the results.. what does that indicate?? If it supported the contention of Brady/Ideal Gas Law/Experts etc. they cannot release them..

Robert Kraft's position in Deflategate:

lmao as if Bob Kraft would do anything for this team he's basically a Jets fan imo what a looser I hope he goes to hell and is raped for 10000000 years, dae agree?

PatsFanSince74 said:

I notice that you are relatively new to the Board and you seem thoughtful and well-intentioned. (Welcome to the Board, BTW.)

So, if you can produce and state in a couple of simple, declarative sentences a single, relevant, substantial and credible fact* that has "NEVER" been "HEARD" in any of the thousands of threads and hundreds of thousands of posts that have been produced on these subjects by people on this Board since the Jets game in 2007 and the Indy game in the playoffs two years ago, I will immediately nominate yours for "Post of the Year."

*
"a couple of simple, declarative sentences," i.e., not a post so long that it takes an hour to figure out what you might be saying...and even then it's kind of not clear. (we have a lot of that out here)

"relevant," i.e., directly related to what are commonly referred to as Spygate or Deflategate.

"substantial," i.e., a fact that would make a difference to the public perception, not something which would get the reaction" gee, I didn't know that," but which doesn't change anything.

"credible," i.e., something that you have sourced (a link would be nice) from a reliable observer and not something believable that you're just making up. Most of us have our theories...

"fact," i.e., something tangible and not just a suggested motivation or bias of one party or the other.

Click to expand...

In 1999, Tim Masters was convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison based almost entirely on testimony by J. Reid Meloy, a quack psychologist specializing in sexual homicide. Meloy concluded that the 15-year-old Masters’ writings and violent drawings implicated him. He called the crime “displaced sexual matricide,” arising from Masters’ feeling of abandonment by his mother’s death four years earlier. This is analogous to using the texts as evidence of ball manipulation (obviously Masters was innocent).

The single supposed violation in 2007 was taping from the "wrong location." The perceived infraction by Goodell warranted perhaps a verbal warning via phone call to GM Belichick.

Brady - and the Patriots - cooperated 100% with the investigation and Brady's cell phone has nothing whatsoever to do with anything related to the accusations.

How many tapes from other games were researched showing somebody using the Men's room for a minute after getting the balls. Any? Even one? No.

What the owner of the team should have done, is act as the owner of the team, not treat it as one of his valued entities. I can go way back to Spygate to identify it.

Accusation: Memo regarding cameras on the field. Something about tape used during gameplay. (This is what Bill knew about the rule.)

Result: Caught! All evidence is turned into the Commish. Tapes reviewed, and BURNED!

What Bob should have done: Asked for all of the signatures of the owners that agreed to the change in policy that the Commish was ruling on, and then, ask that the policy be reviewed and voted on by all of the owners, with Roger present. Until then the memo would be deemed null and void. Request that the tapes be returned to the owner. Matt Walsh would never exist.

Accusation: Balls must be at or above 12.5 PSI

Result: Kensil running across the field saying things like "You're a ****ing ****, with no ****tegrity!" This was proffessional? Lots of things go on during a FB game, but this?

What Bob should have done: Corral the ****wit with the Commish (he was at the game), the official, and the Colt trainer that tested the ball on the sideline. Ask why the trainer was allowed to test the ball without an in game infraction. Protest the game, request that all correspondence between all franchises be recommended by the league regarding a suspected conspiracy against the New England Patriots (i.e. we know that there was correspondence between the Ravens and the Colts).

I hate to say it, but I would almost rather see that happen for the past two years than us winning our 4th. Because that doesn't mean **** to the Pats haters now, and they are all over the radio, print, and television.

Question: When does anybody really think that the Patriots "knew" about the allegations?

Question: When does anybody really think that "the league/ owners" knew about the allegations?

Question: When does anybody really think when " the Commish" knew about the allegations?

Q1.: If they knew, then the score should have been more lopsided than it was.
Q2.: Well before, including Emails sent to Kensil himself by Biscotti and Irsay. Why were their phones never subpoenaed by the league? Nor were Grigson's nor Harbaughs. If you're going to do an investigation, do it all the way through, right?
Q3: Before the group hug/ family photo with Robert at the AFCCG bash at Robert's house.


Corrupt, and without integrity, that should be the league motto.

PatsFanSince74 said:

I notice that you are relatively new to the Board and you seem thoughtful and well-intentioned. (Welcome to the Board, BTW.)

So, if you can produce and state in a couple of simple, declarative sentences a single, relevant, substantial and credible fact* that has "NEVER" been "HEARD" in any of the thousands of threads and hundreds of thousands of posts that have been produced on these subjects by people on this Board since the Jets game in 2007 and the Indy game in the playoffs two years ago, I will immediately nominate yours for "Post of the Year."

*
"a couple of simple, declarative sentences," i.e., not a post so long that it takes an hour to figure out what you might be saying...and even then it's kind of not clear. (we have a lot of that out here)

"relevant," i.e., directly related to what are commonly referred to as Spygate or Deflategate.

"substantial," i.e., a fact that would make a difference to the public perception, not something which would get the reaction" gee, I didn't know that," but which doesn't change anything.

"credible," i.e., something that you have sourced (a link would be nice) from a reliable observer and not something believable that you're just making up. Most of us have our theories...

"fact," i.e., something tangible and not just a suggested motivation or bias of one party or the other.

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"Well-intentioned" is what Kraft is, especially towards Orthwein when he sought to buy the team.

Otherwise, he may have been more likely to respond, "Sure, James, I'll gladly go along with your "image makeover" just as soon as you run the Clydesdales off a cliff, and change the Budweiser label to a picture of a cat litter box that needed to be cleaned six weeks ago!"

Actual Pats Fan said:

Sorry. Moving on and kicking the can down the road will only result in more lost draft picks, unwarranted suspensions and God knows what else. We need to find a way to encourage Bob to do something and get some help.

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All Bob needs to do is stay out of BB's way. Give him whatever he wants.

Actual Pats Fan said:

In 1999, Tim Masters was convicted of murder and sentenced to life in prison based almost entirely on testimony by J. Reid Meloy, a quack psychologist specializing in sexual homicide. Meloy concluded that the 15-year-old Masters’ writings and violent drawings implicated him. He called the crime “displaced sexual matricide,” arising from Masters’ feeling of abandonment by his mother’s death four years earlier. This is analogous to using the texts as evidence of ball manipulation (obviously Masters was innocent).

The single supposed violation in 2007 was taping from the "wrong location." The perceived infraction by Goodell warranted perhaps a verbal warning via phone call to GM Belichick.

Brady - and the Patriots - cooperated 100% with the investigation and Brady's cell phone has nothing whatsoever to do with anything related to the accusations.

How many tapes from other games were researched showing somebody using the Men's room for a minute after getting the balls. Any? Even one? No.

Click to expand...

Big yawns all around. But keep trying.

My favorite way of putting one of your points is that if Belichick had bought the staffer a seat in the front row of the stands and he had recorded from there, the recording would have been perfectly "legal" after the memorandum. I think I've made it about a dozen times myself.

The fact that the texts were blown out of proportion and never linked to anything besides text traffic between a couple of people who knew each other at a time of stress has been mentioned about, um, a million times.

The fact that Wells had even told Brady that his cell phone was no longer needed before he destroyed it has also been mentioned about googleplex times. Ditto for the absurdity of making something out of McNally's trip to the bathroom.

So, you've still come up with nothing that has been "NEVER HEARD" before.

But, still, "Welcome to the Board" and keep on keeping on, as we used to say.

PatsFanSince74 said:

Big yawns all around. But keep trying.

My favorite way of putting one of your points is that if Belichick had bought the staffer a seat in the front row of the stands and he had recorded from there, the recording would have been perfectly "legal" after the memorandum. I think I've made it about a dozen times myself.

The fact that the texts were blown out of proportion and never linked to anything besides text traffic between a couple of people who knew each other at a time of stress has been mentioned about, um, a million times.

The fact that Wells had even told Brady that his cell phone was no longer needed before he destroyed it has also been mentioned about googleplex times. Ditto for the absurdity of making something out of McNally's trip to the bathroom.

So, you've still come up with nothing that has been "NEVER HEARD" before.

But, still, "Welcome to the Board" and keep on keeping on, as we used to say.

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Any problems with Noexcusesfornumber5's post above?

PatsFanSince74 said:

Big yawns all around. But keep trying.

My favorite way of putting one of your points is that if Belichick had bought the staffer a seat in the front row of the stands and he had recorded from there, the recording would have been perfectly "legal" after the memorandum. I think I've made it about a dozen times myself.

The fact that the texts were blown out of proportion and never linked to anything besides text traffic between a couple of people who knew each other at a time of stress has been mentioned about, um, a million times.

The fact that Wells had even told Brady that his cell phone was no longer needed before he destroyed it has also been mentioned about googleplex times. Ditto for the absurdity of making something out of McNally's trip to the bathroom.

So, you've still come up with nothing that has been "NEVER HEARD" before.

But, still, "Welcome to the Board" and keep on keeping on, as we used to say.

Click to expand...

How do YOU feel about the flying elvis? Aesthetically, the motivation for its hasty creation, the degree to which the franchise was "ridiculed" then, compared with today?