Brady's Original Legal Team Screwed Up

JMC00 said:

lol at people blaming Kessler. You weren't blaming him when he convinced Berman to rule for Brady were you?

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Apples and oranges. Trial litigation and appellate litigation are very different.

TommyBrady12 said:

I put much of the blame on Kessler. There is no reason why the case should have been filed in Minnesota. None. And I realize that the NFL went to the SDNY immediately to get a declaratory judgment, but Kessler should have been ready to file something the same day in Massachusetts - he could have told the boston office of his law firm to get to the court house ASAP with papers that were already prepared. There would have then been a fight as to which court had proper jurisdiction, but I believe Mass would have won out because the case stems from acts that occurred in Mass. Minnesota had no relevance other than a favorable opinion by Judge Doty in the Peterson case. Brady would have won in the 1st circuit, both at the district court level and on appeal.

To make matters worse, Kessler argued the appeal, thinking that he was going to stick it to the NFL. The problem was he did not do what was best for his client. Unfortunately, Brady didn't know anything about the law and probably told Kessler "do what you think is best." It cost him.

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Actually going to Minn made a ton of sense and I was shocked when it was not heard there. Every NFL case for the past 50 years has been heard there so there is a huge precedence for it to be heard by Doty. The NFL pulled a fast one and like everything else in the case they somehow win despite it being contrary to previous decisions. The only legal decision Brady's team made that I question, and it is definitely with 20/20 hindsight, is not getting Olsen and all those amiscus briefs when the NFL got Clements. Besides that I thought they did the best that could be done with the hand they were dealt.

pazrul72 said:

Actually going to Minn made a ton of sense and I was shocked when it was not heard there. Every NFL case for the past 50 years has been heard there so there is a huge precedence for it to be heard by Doty. The NFL pulled a fast one and like everything else in the case they somehow win despite it being contrary to previous decisions. The only legal decision Brady's team made that I question, and it is definitely with 20/20 hindsight, is not getting Olsen and all those amiscus briefs when the NFL got Clements. Besides that I thought they did the best that could be done with the hand they were dealt.

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I don't have the numbers of how many NFL cases have been in the 8th circuit, but there is no question that the 1st circuit is better for this particular case. I would venture to say most of the 1st circuit judges are pats fans - yeah a ruling in boston would have been biased but who cares.

I hope they dedicate the whole season to TB12 and go 19-0. I want every team that gets in our way to be burned.

Gronkowski123 said:

kessler ****ed up

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He did but, the logic leaps that they took to overturn it were so absurd I'm not sure if it mattered what anyone on team Brady did. Roger could have been caught on tape saying he made it all up and Clements would have called it irrelevant and Chin would have agreed.

Froob said:

He did but, the logic leaps that they took to overturn it were so absurd I'm not sure if it mattered what anyone on team Brady did. Roger could have been caught on tape saying he made it all up and Clements would have called it irrelevant and Chin would have agreed.

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And yet it's Brady's legal team that is getting hammered. How about hammering the judges that were basically winking and giving Clement the thumbs up at the appeal hearing.

slash83 said:

Should of hired my cousin Vinny.

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Could "have", I suppose...

JMC00 said:

And yet it's Brady's legal team that is getting hammered. How about hammering the judges that were basically winking and giving Clement the thumbs up at the appeal hearing.

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If you want a case study / research topic: HOW MANY 2CA JUDGES HAVE SEASON TICKETS TO THE JESTERS?

I bet you at least 1 and more likely 3-4.
But TB's legal team should have gotten those guys recused before the en banc poll.

They screwed up the worst when they thought it was a good idea to tell the NFL that Brady destroyed his cell phone at the appeal hearing on the day he met with Wells. You can argue the cell phone is irrelevant. You can't possibly argue it was a savvy move to voluntarily disclose that information, as if it would help Brady's case. Why would you do that? Why give Goodell the ammo? How does that help Brady's case? Why not stick with the original argument that Brady's cell phone is personal and the NFL can't have it???

Revealing that information allowed Goodell to completely sidestep the holes in the Wells report and create a media firestorm about the cellphone. And the appeals judge was ultimately partial to that information.

the Patriot said:

They screwed up the worst when they thought it was a good idea to tell the NFL that Brady destroyed his cell phone at the appeal hearing on the day he met with Wells. You can argue the cell phone is irrelevant. You can't possibly argue it was a savvy move to voluntarily disclose that information, as if it would help Brady's case. Why would you do that? Why give Goodell the ammo? How does that help Brady's case? Why not stick with the original argument that Brady's cell phone is personal and the NFL can't have it???

Revealing that information allowed Goodell to completely sidestep the holes in the Wells report and create a media firestorm about the cellphone. And the appeals judge was ultimately partial to that information.

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Yep.

That was dumb move #1.

Dumb move #2 was riding the Kessler hot hand.

JMC00 said:

And yet it's Brady's legal team that is getting hammered. How about hammering the judges that were basically winking and giving Clement the thumbs up at the appeal hearing.

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because kessler should given up control over the case by that point.

TommyBrady12 said:

because kessler should given up control over the case by that point.

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Why are you ignoring the point? Didn't matter at all who was arguing at that appeal hearing, Chin and Parker had their minds made up based on that they thought the evidence was strong against Brady even though they weren't suppose to be considering any of that. No lawyer on the planet was going to convince them otherwise.

JMC00 said:

Why are you ignoring the point? Didn't matter at all who was arguing at that appeal hearing, Chin and Parker had their minds made up based on that they thought the evidence was strong against Brady even though they weren't suppose to be considering any of that. No lawyer on the planet was going to convince them otherwise.

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you don't know what chin and parker were thinking. however, i do know that kessler is not an appeals lawyer.

I'm not so sure ...

I think this started as a few owners after the Patriots and it snowballed to more owners versus the Patriots.
That is why the narrative kept changing ...

I mean if you're accused of something and the fine is $25,000 why would you hire the best lawyers in the country to represent you? IMO as more owners climbed aboard and sought a way to punish the Patriots for their success the methods to find a way to screw them were adapted based on the power given to the commissioner. The destroyed phone hurt ... but if it wasn't destroyed it would have been something else ... they had a punishment and they just needed to fabricate a crime ... and they did. This story had an etched in stone punishment from the time the news broke.

AndyJohnson said:

My God can you read what people have written about this and absorb it?
There was no grounds to make it about guilt or innocence.
Volumes and volumes of law say that no one can dispute and arbiters judgment on guilt and innocence.
It is not legal to go to court to fight the arbiters decision.
Brady's team could only fight the process that led to that decision.

If goodell follows all of the rules of arbitration he could determine brady was Aaron Hernandez accomplice and ban him for life from the NFL and then if he followed the rules of arbitration his judgment in making that decision cannot be questioned in court.

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Exactly. The guilt or innocence phase of the proceedings ended after Goodell used Wells "independent" investigation to declare Brady guilty, then Goodell heard the appeal and decided that he agreed with the decision he made earlier. By the time it got to court, the issue was if Goodell had violated the CBA by concealing information and railroading a player. Since we apparently now live in bizarro world, the court decided that was okay.

TommyBrady12 said:

I don't have the numbers of how many NFL cases have been in the 8th circuit, but there is no question that the 1st circuit is better for this particular case. I would venture to say most of the 1st circuit judges are pats fans - yeah a ruling in boston would have been biased but who cares.

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All of them. Since 1963 when the Hunts needed something and had a family friend who was a judge there. Doty took over 30 years ago but the NFL has been doing business in Minn as long as they have had legal issues. I looked this up awhile back because I was arguing deflategate with my fiancee and she was like why Minn....and I went....ummm....let me check on that. So while I won't argue Mass might have biased pats fans, and with 20/20 that might have worked better, at the time filing with Doty, a man who knows the history of how scummy the NFL is and has smacked them down every chance he has got, was not a bad call.

Lawyers can only "lawyer" so much when the cards are stacked against them, in this case the collective bargaining agreement is the culprit.. the NFLPA and Players sold their soul to the NFL and gave the power to Roger and his minions..

The basic mistake is the structure and rules under which the idiot from Madison Ave. plays by.. the power of the NFL commish plays by is unprecedented in labor contracts..

Section 1. League Discipline: Notwithstanding anything stated in Article 43:
(a) All disputes involving a fine or suspension imposed upon a player for conduct on the playing field (other than as described in Subsection (b) below) or involv-ing action taken against a player by the Commissioner for conduct detrimental to the integrity of, or public confidence in, the game of professional football, will be processed exclusively as follows: the Commissioner will promptly send written notice of his action to the player, with a copy to the NFLPA. Within three (3) business days following such written notification, the player affected thereby, or the NFLPA with the player’s approv-al, may appeal in writing to the Commissioner.

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AndyJohnson said:

My God can you read what people have written about this and absorb it?
There was no grounds to make it about guilt or innocence.
Volumes and volumes of law say that no one can dispute and arbiters judgment on guilt and innocence.
It is not legal to go to court to fight the arbiters decision.
Brady's team could only fight the process that led to that decision.

If goodell follows all of the rules of arbitration he could determine brady was Aaron Hernandez accomplice and ban him for life from the NFL and then if he followed the rules of arbitration his judgment in making that decision cannot be questioned in court.

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This.

Basically guilt/innocence was decided by this guy...



... and the rest was labor law. You don't really think the NFLPA was pleading for the Patriots to be exonerated, do you? 31/32 of its membership think reflexively that the Patriots are guilty from the jump. Tom Brady sneezes and they say he doesn't have a cold, it's a trap. He's sniffing pepper to fool you.

The court of public opinion is another matter.

It is interesting, however, that the coverage I hear on sports radio and sometimes see on sports TV (yes, BSPN and NFL*N) seems to be way less vitriolic than the League*'s original false-leak-fed coverage.

The tone around this seems to be more "Well, they might/might not have done it... I think they did something shady but really how important can this even be... the Colts got beat down worse AFTER the gameballs were changed out..."

What's missing, however, is the angle that the League* essentially colluded to strip the Pats of draft picks and suspend Brady. That's the real bullcrap here. It's a "Break up the Patiots" move, and it would be good if somebody outside the Pats' fan-base called that one as it is.

When we're looking back at the Brady era, that might get some traction... but I doubt it. People want to look at a dominant team and say "well, they really were only so good... they cut a corner or two to get there."

Most people don't even go that deep, they just say "Yeah that run was pretty impressive. Different era though. Can't compare."

It's only after you see the chicanery on the League*'s part these last few years to smear the Pats that you really care that Carmen Policy was a Cap criminal... and only if you're deep, deep into football. 90% of fans are like "That guy run good. That guy throw good. Ooo he got JACKED UP."

Brewskies said:

Brady himself screwed up. Way back in the beginning when he didn't take the charges seriously.

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How the hell could anyone with a brain have taken this seriously? That this was about to go to the Supreme Court shows how ridiculous of a little man and how much of a ***** Roger Goodell is.

XLIX said:

Hindsight is always 20/20. Kessler represented Peterson in early 2015 and won and he won the first round with Brady in September 2015. There was absolutely no reason to think he wasn't the right guy for the next step.

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This was no time for on the job training and for Kessler to prove he was a pro bowler.

Olsen should have been brought abroad before Goodell lawyered up and appealed the first ruling. Everyone on the planet knew that Goodell wasnt done.