Alan Millstein: Brady's chances of en banc hearing dramatically improved with latest amicus filings

patfanken said:

Well you are off to a bad start. Most of us have no problem being negative.....IF you make an attempt to back up your opinion with supporting evidence. The 2 huge breaks you point out here is why I said you are off to a bad start.

The tuck rule - How is that a break. It was a rule that no referee has ever said the official made the wrong call. Jet fans conveniently forget that the Jets BENEFITED for the exact same call in the very same year. Every team benefits from calls that the refs makes from time to time. Sometimes the refs are actually are wrong in their call. In this case they got it exactly right. How is that the Pats getting a break. And how is that the NYJ alumni club giving the Pats a break? The rule might have made no sense, but it was a rule and continued to be a rule for another decade.

Burning the spygate tapes - was actually the worst thing that ever happened to the Pats. EVERYone who actually saw those tapes confirmed they were exactly what they proposed to be. Film of the scoreboard giving down, distance, and time; then the shots of the Jets DC giving his signals. THAT's it. Rather than protecting the Pats, burning the tapes actually was a key reason that made the Pats looks suspicious. I too want to know why Roger burned those tapes.

Click to expand...

Regarding the Tuck Rule, I guess someone could call it a "break" that the officials, after a review, recognized and made the correct call. That call had been made before and after that divisional game against the Raiders, but some people, like Bob Ryan, believe it was invented on the spot and then never called again. Maybe it was too vague or hard to consistently enforce to be a "good" rule, but it was put on the books for a reason, years before the 2001 season. There are worse rules, at least in terms of enforcement, still on the books, like the illegal batting rule. We saw the officials rob the Lions of a chance at winning a game by missing on that. We saw the officials miss one in the Super Bowl that benefited Denver. I don't see anyone saying there was a conspiracy to help the Seahawks or Broncos.

A lot has been said about league representatives destroying the tapes the Patriots had of defensive signals, so I'll try not to re-hash the whole thing. Simply put, no matter what the league did, the tinfoil hat Patriots haters would claim there was more going on.

Destroy the tapes? They're hiding something.

Show some of the tapes? They edited them, that's not everything, they're hiding something.

Show all of the tapes? They edited them. They're hiding something. There's no way that's everything. There's got to be more.

This "more" that they keep talking about is whatever their imaginations can come up with: Tapes of practices, hidden camera recordings of opposing locker rooms, bugged phone conversations, stolen playbooks, etc. In their minds, it was all in a box labeled "Cheatin' Stuff" that the Patriots turned over to the league in 2007 and the league then destroyed. Sadly, people, some of them who get to be on TV, actually believe this.

.

Ross12 said:

As of right now I enjoy having @JetFan79 around, he's witty enough and brings a valuable perspective to the board. Could be a hell of a lot worse for a Jets fan. Thanks for mentioning me though - definitely the easiest way to alert me!

Click to expand...

JetFan79 said:

I'm not sure if Brady cares about how the public outside of NE views him at all, but if he does, he really needs to think pretty hard about whether or not to take this to SCOTUS (if needed).

Right now, the overwhelming majority of football fans in the country aren't paying attention and really don't care how this turns out. But if this goes to SCOTUS, that's a whole 'nother level. Football fans and non fans will all be paying attention.

And potentially (most likely in my opinion) be pretty freakin' pissed a case about deflated footballs (which is how most would see it) and a CBA agreed to by complete idiots, would be competing for time with other cases having to do with issues like abortion, immigration/deportation, LGBT rights, and so on...

Not saying he absolutely shouldn't do it, but he just better consider the consequences. If he does go through with it, at bare minimum he better have one heck of a PR team explaining his (or the broader) case to those outside NE.

I know most of you think he should do it. But trust me, I don't know a single person who thinks SCOTUS should spend a single second of their time on this.

Hopefully it doesn't even matter and Brady gets his appeal now. Guess we'll see soon enough.

Click to expand...

Honestly I do not think most people see the Supreme Court as so overworked that they could not handle this case in addition to their current workload. In addition, there are issues in this case that have grabbed the attention of the general public beyond deflated footballs relating to rights of employees and limits on an employer's ability to be intrusive. Not all of these issues may excite the Supreme Court, but they have taken root in the public. This is probably one reason why this case still generates so much debate - in addition to the question of "did he do it?". I think most people would chuckle if this case went to the Supreme Court - it is so absurd that it feels only proper it should end up there.

JetFan79 said:

Lol, I love that video. Honestly though, I don't know. Googling says it's about protecting a QB's knees. Why?

Click to expand...

@supafly covered it. Most people, even NFL athlete misinterpret the Carson Palmer rule as the Brady rule. Bray Rule = players on the ground can't lunge at the QB. They are suppose to re-establish their feet (basically get back up) before contacting the QB.

For the record, the tapes were supposedly destroyed by Jeff Pash putting them on the floor and jumping up and down on them, not by burning.

Koma said:

This "more" that they keep talking about is whatever their imaginations can come up with: Tapes of practices, hidden camera recordings of opposing locker rooms, bugged phone conversations, stolen playbooks, etc. In their minds, it was all in a box labeled "Cheatin' Stuff" that the Patriots turned over to the league in 2007 and the league then destroyed. Sadly, people, some of them who get to be on TV, actually believe this.

Click to expand...

If you remember, the infraction obviously occurred on a Sunday, and by Tuesday or Wednesday, there were ghost stories being manufactured by idiots all over the internet.

RelocatedPatFan said:

@supafly covered it. Most people, even NFL athlete misinterpret the Carson Palmer rule as the Brady rule. Bray Rule = players on the ground can't lunge at the QB. They are suppose to re-establish their feet (basically get back up) before contacting the QB.

Click to expand...

Yes, I think most feel that it's a very fair rule, particularly when we take into account the focus on keeping players safe (specifically QBs). You should have to re-establish yourself, rather than crawling on the ground to dive at the quarterback's knees.

Unfortunately, there seem to be many who mix the rules up, with the whining suggestion (not necessarily from Jetfan79) that Tom Brady somehow receives preferential treatment. As we know by the low amount of personal foul calls when Brady is hit, this simply isn't true. I'm not sure about the past few years, but we saw the stats that showed Brady received one of the lowest numbers of penalties called against the opposition when hit, and that was back in 2012-2013. I haven't seen any numbers since then, but I can't imagine that it's changed all that much.

JetFan79 said:

I try to avoid any of the details of the "gates" and cheating accusations.

Obviously I'm going to disagree on many of these issues with Pats fans.

Click to expand...

So...you choose to not learn the facts, then you disagree with people who instead chose to learn the facts.

This should make a light bulb go off in your head.

But then again... Jets fans...

supafly said:

... with the whining suggestion (not necessarily from Jetfan79)

Click to expand...

So not necessarily not Jetfan79 then?

supafly said:

...that Tom Brady somehow receives preferential treatment. As we know by the low amount of personal foul calls when Brady is hit, this simply isn't true. I'm not sure about the past few years, but we saw the stats that showed Brady received one of the lowest numbers of penalties called against the opposition when hit, and that was back in 2012-2013. I haven't seen any numbers since then, but I can't imagine that it's changed all that much.

Click to expand...

There desperately needs to be a site that tracks these kind of penalties. The people that have done so only seem to only track them for short periods of time.

How many RtP penalties per throw does Manning get, how many does Brady get?

Or this stat: Passing Yards Lost to Penalties: 2015 NFL Season

Passing Yards Negated Due to Penalties.
1 Tom Brady NE 504 4,770
2 Carson Palmer ARI 253 4,671
The average Passing Yards Lost to Penalties in the in the NFL 2015 season was 104.07

Couple this with a site that grades how the referees call a game and breaks down the calls and no-calls of big games and I think you've got a hit on your hands.

How fair were the calls that were made? Were they evenly called? What penalties weren't called?

Every fanbase in the world feels like the refs screwed them. Start grading/breaking down games from a neutral perspective and people are going to be interested in what you have to say.

JetFan79 said:

See, now this is why I try to avoid any of the details of the "gates" and cheating accusations.

Obviously I'm going to disagree on many of these issues with Pats fans. Occasionally I'll chime in about a particular point or with a question, but it's definitely best not to post about things I know will only cause arguments.

Click to expand...

IcyPatriot said:

Click to expand...

Danger Zone said:

There desperately needs to be a site that tracks these kind of penalties. The people that have done so only seem to only track them for short periods of time.

How many RtP penalties per throw does Manning get, how many does Brady get?

Or this stat: Passing Yards Lost to Penalties: 2015 NFL Season

Passing Yards Negated Due to Penalties.
1 Tom Brady NE 504 4,770
2 Carson Palmer ARI 253 4,671
The average Passing Yards Lost to Penalties in the in the NFL 2015 season was 104.07

Couple this with a site that grades how the referees call a game and breaks down the calls and no-calls of big games and I think you've got a hit on your hands.

How fair were the calls that were made? Were they evenly called? What penalties weren't called?

Every fanbase in the world feels like the refs screwed them. Start grading/breaking down games from a neutral perspective and people are going to be interested in what you have to say.

Click to expand...

Go ahead with your bad self, DZ. It's definitely something to ponder, and you would do a fine job of putting together such a website. Unfortunately, it would be so insanely time consuming!

wow..it's all so clear to me now...I'm IGNANT...
always knew I had a screw loose...

Joker said:

wow..it's all so clear to me now...I'm IGNANT...
always knew I had a screw loose...

Click to expand...

More incorrect facts. We know it's more than one. I don't want to lump you in with the Jets fan, you're the man and don't deserve that so please correct.

Danger Zone said:

There desperately needs to be a site that tracks these kind of penalties. The people that have done so only seem to only track them for short periods of time.

How many RtP penalties per throw does Manning get, how many does Brady get?

Or this stat: Passing Yards Lost to Penalties: 2015 NFL Season

Passing Yards Negated Due to Penalties.
1 Tom Brady NE 504 4,770
2 Carson Palmer ARI 253 4,671
The average Passing Yards Lost to Penalties in the in the NFL 2015 season was 104.07

Couple this with a site that grades how the referees call a game and breaks down the calls and no-calls of big games and I think you've got a hit on your hands.

How fair were the calls that were made? Were they evenly called? What penalties weren't called?

Every fanbase in the world feels like the refs screwed them. Start grading/breaking down games from a neutral perspective and people are going to be interested in what you have to say.

Click to expand...

To be fair lots of those yards come from the "Gronk" / Shaq/LeBron rule.

Still, it's confirmation bias on people's parts when Brady gets a single flag or maybe even questionable and it then "always" happens.

When it comes to passing yards negated, we were screwed over when it comes to Gronk and specifically the first Denver game where Tre Jackson was called for holding on a deep pass. Other plays like that blatant pick play we run for Amendola deserved to be called.

Refs suck in general. I watched the Ravens tight end get screwed over for opi when he didn't even touch the guy. It was hilarious and I guess other fan bases laugh their ass off over something as dumb as deflategate. Man this is really something that should have happened to a Rex Ryan team and then he would have had to argue that the balls didn't give a competitive advantage and that warm weather is the reason why they kill it in the offseason with an over inflated ball and everyone should look at A. Rodgers.

Man Im going to be checking into the site periodically throughout today for any possible breaking news. Lets all hope we get some great news to kick off the weekend!

slash83 said:

Man Im going to be checking into the site periodically throughout today for any possible breaking news. Lets all hope we get some great news to kick off the weekend!

Click to expand...

Wallach now backtracking on today being decision day.