Alan Millstein: Brady's chances of en banc hearing dramatically improved with latest amicus filings

Has there been a discussion about what kind of infractions would constitute a 1/4 season ban with the word "integrity" in it for the other major sports? Besides PED use there are some cheating possibilities but they'd all get caught and there would be actual proof. Take hockey: the goalies pads too big or the blade on a hockey stick is too wide/long/curved. Result - penalty. In baseball you can doctor the ball (garners a suspension, probably 10 games tops) and a corked bat (probably 10 games). The proof wold be there. In basketball I'm not sure how you can cheat. But do any of those infractions suggest a suspension of 20 games in both NHL and NBA and a 40 game ban in baseball? This is how ridiculous this deflate gate saga really is.

GrogansArmy said:

Who is Michelle McQuirk? NFL lawyer?

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She's just some whack job.

GrogansArmy said:

Who is Michelle McQuirk? NFL lawyer?

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Roger's side piece...

Jackson 2 said:

Roger's side piece...

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I thought that's what she is....

aluminum seats said:

Exactly. And as far as the "experts" go, they've got it down cold: you eventually predict every possible outcome will occur, and when something finally happens, you say, "nailed it!"

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Fair point.

I've been humbled by the respect my views have been given out here since I nailed Judge Berman's profile a couple of days after he was named for the original Appeal. There, I had the advantage of knowing folks in the local media and political community down here (I live in NYC) and figuring out who he was; I took some abuse for it on the Board, but I was proven right.

But, I've never said anything other than that being granted the en banc hearing was a 50-50 proposition. Too many variables to take into account, unlike nailing the profile of one Judge, who is well known in circles with which I am familiar.

If someone asked me to make a bet in my local bar, I'd bet no more than a beer that Brady gets the hearing. Whereas, with Berman, I'd have put some Ben Franklins on the table that Brady would prevail.

letekro said:

The Spurs are boring and from a small market. How do the tinfoil heads explain their dominance?

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I don't think anyone was trying

They were simply stating that the NBA has been caught fixing games

This is not in dispute

Nor is it in dispute (well, not around here) that the NFL would blatantly fabricate a scandal to bench the best player on the best team to appease certain owners who view them as a road block to the "right" all 32 owners have to hoist a Lombardi and all the profits and ego preening that comes with it

I still don't see how anyone can assert that the NFL isn't fixing games when they suspend a perennial MVP contender for a quarter of the season

Those that dispute these facts are wearing the tin hats in my opinion

PatsWickedPissah said:

That last sentence epitomises this entire thread. So many pages yet devoid of any verifiable facts. I just skip and read a few posts every five or so pages and see which Way the wind is blowing that day

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aluminum seats said:

Exactly. And as far as the "experts" go, they've got it down cold: you eventually predict every possible outcome will occur, and when something finally happens, you say, "nailed it!"

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Actually I think the notion that the NFL is openly and blatantly "fixing" games could very well be at the heart of the matter. Government has stepped in before as the FBI did with the NBA fixing games (though amazingly some have short memories of major league sports fixing games).

I've worked for the judiciary including with many Supreme Court Justices, and although I'm not a lawyer I have pretty good understanding of issues that go into an Appellate decision - so I consider my opinion as valid as any of the other "experts" out there.

The Supremes or any Appellate Judge will tell you all judges HATE to be overturned - they like to "get it right" though certainly have their own views of justice... at times they will allow the word of law to win the day - effectively admonishing the law makers to make their laws more specific sending them "back to the drawing board" as it were so as not to provide too much gray area, as Judges know they need to interpret but that the laws also should be clearly defined.

There are times however when despite there being a need to address a poorly written law, that appellate judges will want to rise above the WORD of law and focus on the SPIRIT - more specifically to enusre that "Justice" is served.

These three judges already decided the case in a 2-1 margin. They (supposedly) knew the case and made their decision based upon the word of law. If 2 of them were truly convinced that their position was the right one, this would have been decided quickly.

It has not been. They have received many briefs - none of which they need read (though their clerks certainly did - and recommended certain ones to the Judges) - though in this case there are some BIG names - and BIG implications to their 2-1 decision - that they can't ignore and we KNOW the judges had to have read them.

After spending all this time - considering the Physicist brief stating that the evidence exonerates Brady - and reading other briefs from the AFL-CIO and other MAJOR legal experts that factually show Goodell to have been boldly and blatantly unfair - I don't see how they will allow their ruling to stand as is

The only question to me is WHAT they do - re-hear it themselves and hold the NFL's feet to the fire on their version of the truth? Send it back to Berman and possibly release notes to allow the "truth" to come to light. Or another route similarly designed to allow the spotlight of justice to shine on the NFL - because ultimately - though they often need to be reminded - "justice" is their job - not simply "the law"

My boldest prediction yet? A decision will be announced this week.

They will want this OFF their dockets (at least temporarilly) before the holiday weekend and it's already well past the time for a simple decision to re-hear or recommend en-banc

It could be as early as today - but my expectation is that it will happen by Friday

Let's see how much of an "expert" I truly am now! -

JoeSixPat said:

Actually I think the notion that the NFL is openly and blatantly "fixing" games could very well be at the heart of the matter. Government has stepped in before as the FBI did with the NBA fixing games (though amazingly some have short memories of major league sports fixing games).

I've worked for the judiciary including with many Supreme Court Justices, and although I'm not a lawyer I have pretty good understanding of issues that go into an Appellate decision - so I consider my opinion as valid as any of the other "experts" out there.

The Supremes or any Appellate Judge will tell you all judges HATE to be overturned - they like to "get it right" though certainly have their own views of justice... at times they will allow the word of law to win the day - effectively admonishing the law makers to make their laws more specific sending them "back to the drawing board" as it were so as not to provide too much gray area, as Judges know they need to interpret but that the laws also should be clearly defined.

There are times however when despite there being a need to address a poorly written law, that appellate judges will want to rise above the WORD of law and focus on the SPIRIT - more specifically to enusre that "Justice" is served.

These three judges already decided the case in a 2-1 margin. They (supposedly) knew the case and made their decision based upon the word of law. If 2 of them were truly convinced that their position was the right one, this would have been decided quickly.

It has not been. They have received many briefs - none of which they need read (though their clerks certainly did - and recommended certain ones to the Judges) - though in this case there are some BIG names - and BIG implications to their 2-1 decision - that they can't ignore and we KNOW the judges had to have read them.

After spending all this time - considering the Physicist brief stating that the evidence exonerates Brady - and reading other briefs from the AFL-CIO and other MAJOR legal experts that factually show Goodell to have been boldly and blatantly unfair - I don't see how they will allow their ruling to stand as is

The only question to me is WHAT they do - re-hear it themselves and hold the NFL's feet to the fire on their version of the truth? Send it back to Berman and possibly release notes to allow the "truth" to come to light. Or another route similarly designed to allow the spotlight of justice to shine on the NFL - because ultimately - though they often need to be reminded - "justice" is their job - not simply "the law"

My boldest prediction yet? A decision will be announced this week.

They will want this OFF their dockets (at least temporarilly) before the holiday weekend and it's already well past the time for a simple decision to re-hear or recommend en-banc

It could be as early as today - but my expectation is that it will happen by Friday

Let's see how much of an "expert" I truly am now! -

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Great post

JoeSixPat said:

I don't think anyone was trying

They were simply stating that the NBA has been caught fixing games

This is not in dispute

Nor is it in dispute (well, not around here) that the NFL would blatantly fabricate a scandal to bench the best player on the best team to appease certain owners who view them as a road block to the "right" all 32 owners have to hoist a Lombardi and all the profits and ego preening that comes with it

I still don't see how anyone can assert that the NFL isn't fixing games when they suspend a perennial MVP contender for a quarter of the season

Those that dispute these facts are wearing the tin hats in my opinion

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What if the Patriots 4-0 or 3-1 during a Brady suspension? (I still don't think he will be suspended, this is just hypothetical)

It is hard not to think that those in the NFL front office who have a grudge against the Pats, and other owners who cannot seem to compete with them are trying to sabotage the Pats season on purpose when the last team (IIRC) to be caught tampering with footballs before a game was fined less than $10,000. And in THAT case (Jets) they had actually caught them red handed. There was NO question of guilt. Fast forward to the present and we see a ball tampering charge that has actually been DISPROVED is seeing a punishment of a loss of a first round pick and the loss of the team's best player for a quarter of the season.

There is simply no way you can look at those 2 entirely different outcomes and believe that the NFL isn't trying to affect the outcome of games. If there is another alternative that I'm not seeing, I sure would be interested in hearing about it.

patfanken said:

It is hard not to think that those in the NFL front office who have a grudge against the Pats, and other owners who cannot seem to compete with them are trying to sabotage the Pats season on purpose when the last team (IIRC) to be caught tampering with footballs before a game was fined less than $10,000. And in THAT case (Jets) they had actually caught them red handed. There was NO question of guilt. Fast forward to the present and we see a ball tampering charge that has actually been DISPROVED is seeing a punishment of a loss of a first round pick and the loss of the team's best player for a quarter of the season.

There is simply no way you can look at those 2 entirely different outcomes and believe that the NFL isn't trying to affect the outcome of games. If there is another alternative that I'm not seeing, I sure would be interested in hearing about it.

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I don't see anyone disagreeing that the league office is corrupt, incompetent, and clearly biased, I know I'm certainly not arguing against those charges, in fact I make all of them myself all the time. The only thing bring argued is the semantics of game fixing. If those things comprise game fixing then they are guilty, however, imo at least, they don't. Game fixing is a very specific charge where the league office directs officials to make sure the team they want to win wins the game, and while I agree they have their favorites and will put their fingers on the scale in other ways I just don't believe they actually take it that far, and if they did they would get caught because they are clowns who can't do anything right. I hope I'm wrong and they get caught doing just that so the league office gets wiped out wholesale.

JoeSixPat said:

I don't think anyone was trying

They were simply stating that the NBA has been caught fixing games

This is not in dispute

Nor is it in dispute (well, not around here) that the NFL would blatantly fabricate a scandal to bench the best player on the best team to appease certain owners who view them as a road block to the "right" all 32 owners have to hoist a Lombardi and all the profits and ego preening that comes with it

I still don't see how anyone can assert that the NFL isn't fixing games when they suspend a perennial MVP contender for a quarter of the season

Those that dispute these facts are wearing the tin hats in my opinion

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Which makes the NFL and NBA more "reality TV" than competitive sport, IMO. Looks like both the NFL and the NBA exploit the "squishy" ill defined rules (OPI, PI, Holding, Blocking) to achieve the desired outcome (and there's no way you can convince me that they aren't doing this). Now we have this new trend of benching players (e.g. Green in NBA finals and Brady 4 games for literally no reason) to extend playoff series, create more parity or whatever. It's really over the top and makes the whole thing look farcical.

Ivan said:

I don't see anyone disagreeing that the league office is corrupt, incompetent, and clearly biased, I know I'm certainly not arguing against those charges, in fact I make all of them myself all the time. The only thing bring argued is the semantics of game fixing. If those things comprise game fixing then they are guilty, however, imo at least, they don't. Game fixing is a very specific charge where the league office directs officials to make sure the team they want to win wins the game, and while I agree they have their favorites and will put their fingers on the scale in other ways I just don't believe they actually take it that far, and if they did they would get caught because they are clowns who can't do anything right. I hope I'm wrong and they get caught doing just that so the league office gets wiped out wholesale.

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Ivan, buddy, I think you are stuck on the "semantics" issue. If losing key draft picks, and THE key player doesn't affect the competitive balance of a team than I don't know what you are looking for to prove the point. Right now the only thing that I think would convince you is Roger Goodell on tape telling an official to make sure the Pats don't win the game.

The thing is the league doesn't have to be SO extremely blatant, when they can do what they have done to the Pats, and seemingly get away with it. That's pretty blatant in itself

patfanken said:

Ivan, buddy, I think you are stuck on the "semantics" issue. If losing key draft picks, and THE key player doesn't affect the competitive balance of a team than I don't know what you are looking for to prove the point. Right now the only thing that I think would convince you is Roger Goodell on tape telling an official to make sure the Pats don't win the game.

The thing is the league doesn't have to be SO extremely blatant, when they can do what they have done to the Pats, and seemingly get away with it. That's pretty blatant in itself

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We will have to agree to disagree Ken, imo a charge of game fixing is specific to certain games, a charge of bias is wholesale. Imo they are clearly biased but I haven't seen evidence of actual game fixing, and unlike the NFL league office I need evidence to convict.

At least the NBA doesn't pretend they care about the integrity of the game. Stern told the players himself he knows where the bodies are buried and that's because he buried some himself. Hard to say with him if he meant literally or figuratively .

Ivan said:

We will have to agree to disagree Ken, imo a charge of game fixing is specific to certain games, a charge of bias is wholesale. Imo they are clearly biased but I haven't seen evidence of actual game fixing, and unlike the NFL league office I need evidence to convict.

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How about "season-fixing"?

The Brandon Five said:

How about "season-fixing"?

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Such as the Colts?

Tom Brady's case is no longer about deflated footballs or a four-game suspension -- it's about the fundamental rights of American workers and a dangerous threat to industrial peace in America. At least that's the case Brady and his new lawyer, Ted Olson, are not only trying to make but sell to the U.S. Supreme Court. To do so, they've assembled an all-star team of labor leaders, scholars and experts.

How Tom Brady is gearing up for the Supreme Court

JoeSixPat said:

I don't think anyone was trying

They were simply stating that the NBA has been caught fixing games

This is not in dispute

Nor is it in dispute (well, not around here) that the NFL would blatantly fabricate a scandal to bench the best player on the best team to appease certain owners who view them as a road block to the "right" all 32 owners have to hoist a Lombardi and all the profits and ego preening that comes with it

I still don't see how anyone can assert that the NFL isn't fixing games when they suspend a perennial MVP contender for a quarter of the season

Those that dispute these facts are wearing the tin hats in my opinion

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I think the bold is very much in dispute. I would really appreciate a link or something that indicates the NBA was "caught fixing games." My recollection is that Donaghy said the officials that worked the Lakers-Kings game were company men that would have understood it was good for the league to extend the series. First of all, I don't recall that Donaghy said he had any inside information about that game at all. Most likely, he saw what happened in that game and, like the rest of us, thought something was very likely up. What it was and whether it came from the league office is unclear, I think, although I will wait for your link. Also, my recollection is that Donaghy did not cite to any other examples where he thought the fix was in. I've been watching the NBA for over 30 years and that game was different than every other I have ever seen. So, I think something went on there. But, I don't think it was necessarily a league order (because I haven't seen a pattern of unusually bad officiating in close-out games and almost all series go less than 7 games). Anyway, apologies for inaccuracies in the above, I am going off recollection. But, I would love to see a link where the league office was "caught".

letekro said:

I think the bold is very much in dispute. I would really appreciate a link or something that indicates the NBA was "caught fixing games." My recollection is that Donaghy said the officials that worked the Lakers-Kings game were company men that would have understood it was good for the league to extend the series. First of all, I don't recall that Donaghy said he had any inside information about that game at all. Most likely, he saw what happened in that game and, like the rest of us, thought something was very likely up. What it was and whether it came from the league office is unclear, I think, although I will wait for your link. Also, my recollection is that Donaghy did not cite to any other examples where he thought the fix was in. I've been watching the NBA for over 30 years and that game was different than every other I have ever seen. So, I think something went on there. But, I don't think it was necessarily a league order (because I haven't seen a pattern of unusually bad officiating in close-out games and almost all series go less than 7 games). Anyway, apologies for inaccuracies in the above, I am going off recollection. But, I would love to see a link where the league office was "caught".

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Seems pretty suspicious though.

Tim Donaghy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia