Alan Millstein: Brady's chances of en banc hearing dramatically improved with latest amicus filings

Ivan said:

I'm convinced gronkowski123 keeps a loaded gun In his mouth at all times, one of these days he will trip and it will go off.

Click to expand...

The good news is that the damage will be minimal...

patfanken said:

Can't agree more. Instead of enjoying the game when I watch, I find myself looking for examples where the league can be manipulating the outcomes. If I stay a fan of this league much longer I will have to have a tinhat made for me. ....and the paranoia grows.

But like they say, "it ain't paranoia, if it's true."

Click to expand...

Love football too much I can say I will leave when Brady does but then I wouldnt be a True Patriots fan whether it was Mcphearson Parcells, Carroll, Belichick or if its Rex Ryan Tom Brady Drew Bledsoe Tony Eason or Mark Sanchez behind center Im still a Patriot fan.
If the NFL makes it hard for us and treats us unjustly well thats how Ive been treated my whole life.
So it just makes the Victory that much sweeter.

Gronkowski123 said:

it was always a long shot

tom is screwed.

Click to expand...

You may be right, but in the meantime all we can do is try to remain optimistic.

not sure if this was posted but daniel wallach thinks that it's not necessarily bad that CA2 is taking so long. It could be that they are still digesting all the amicus briefs - remember, this is not an ordinary appeal where you may get 1 or 2 amicus briefs. here, we have a whole bunch from Feinberg, the law professors, the scientists, etc. that the judges have to consider.

Also, two judges from CA2 are going into senior status. this could complicate things a little bit and may be contributing to the delay.

keep your chin up folks.

Interesting. If en banc is granted and those judges go senior before oral argument that means only 11 judges will hear the case, so only 6 needed for a Brady win (with 13 it would have needed 7). Presumably you'd start with 1 for Brady (Katzmann) and 2 for the NFL (Chin, Parker). So out of the remaining 8, Brady would have to get 5. On the other hand, if @PatsFanSince74 is correct about Chin, then maybe Brady would have Chin and so only need 4 more. Again, that all assumed en banc is granted.

FWIW, here are the rules for senior status judges re: en banc: IOP 35.1. En Banc Poll and Decision

Since the judges the MCI mentions won't go senior until later in the summer, presumably they'll still get to vote on whether to grant en banc review or not.

ChrisR2223 said:

Love football too much I can say I will leave when Brady does but then I wouldnt be a True Patriots fan whether it was Mcphearson Parcells, Carroll, Belichick or if its Rex Ryan Tom Brady Drew Bledsoe Tony Eason or Mark Sanchez behind center Im still a Patriot fan.
If the NFL makes it hard for us and treats us unjustly well thats how Ive been treated my whole life.
So it just makes the Victory that much sweeter.

Click to expand...

Don't worry, all those people promising to leave aren't going anywhere. They'll find some excuse to stay. Maybe the Patriots stay championship caliber, maybe Goodell retires or gets fired, who knows. But nobody is going anywhere.

QuantumMechanic said:

Interesting. If en banc is granted and those judges go senior before oral argument that means only 11 judges will hear the case, so only 6 needed for a Brady win (with 13 it would have needed 7). Presumably you'd start with 1 for Brady (Katzmann) and 2 for the NFL (Chin, Parker). So out of the remaining 8, Brady would have to get 5. On the other hand, if @PatsFanSince74 is correct about Chin, then maybe Brady would have Chin and so only need 4 more. Again, that all assumed en banc is granted.

FWIW, here are the rules for senior status judges re: en banc: IOP 35.1. En Banc Poll and Decision

Since the judges the MCI mentions won't go senior until later in the summer, presumably they'll still get to vote on whether to grant en banc review or not.

Click to expand...

The 13 active judges — soon to be 11, with Richard C. Wesley and Gerard E. Lynch set to hit senior status this summer —

Click to expand...

Too bad they arent named Chin . . .
Interesting:
it appears from these rules that en banc has a circuitious route and a seperate set of voter pools at each step of the way.
(A). It appears you need at least one 'champion' on the court to even get a poll, you would assume katzman would (or does his dissent already cover this base?)

(B) poll voters would be less if they wait to ORDER the en banc poll until after wesley/lynch's senior date.

(C/D) Even if chin/other a-**** went senior they could still have PARTICIPATED in and VOTED on the en banc. But if they wait on discussing /orals these two retiring bubbas are gone from pool.

With that in consideration, it may make sense (general procedures) for the court to always wait til after the guys go sr to post an en banc poll order so that you dont have guys no longer with them determining what work those remaining have to do or not do . so that could mean Aug-Sep before they even start the poll process. That seems awfully long, but i guess courts have different timescales.

(a) Judges Eligible to Request an En Banc Poll. Only an active judge of the court or a senior judge who sat on the three-judge panel is eligible to request a poll of the active judges to determine whether a case should be heard or reheard en banc.

(b) Judges Eligible to Vote in an En Banc Poll. Only an active judge may vote to determine whether a case should be heard or reheard en banc and whether an en banc panel, once constituted, should be dissolved. A judge's status as an active or senior judge for the purpose of an en banc poll is determined on the date of entry of the en banc order.

(c) Judges Eligible to Participate in an En Banc Hearing or Rehearing. Only an active judge or a senior judge who sat on the three-judge panel is eligible to participate in the en banc hearing or rehearing. A judge's status as an active or senior judge is determined on the date of the hearing or rehearing en banc, i.e., on the date oral argument is heard or the case is submitted.

(d) Judges Eligible to Participate in an En Banc Decision. Only an active judge or a senior judge who either sat on the three-judge panel or took senior status after a case was heard or reheard en banc may participate in the en banc decision. A judge who joins the court after a case was heard or reheard en banc is not eligible to participate in the en banc decision.

Click to expand...

ChrisR2223 said:

Love football too much I can say I will leave when Brady does but then I wouldnt be a True Patriots fan whether it was Mcphearson Parcells, Carroll, Belichick or if its Rex Ryan Tom Brady Drew Bledsoe Tony Eason or Mark Sanchez behind center Im still a Patriot fan.
If the NFL makes it hard for us and treats us unjustly well thats how Ive been treated my whole life.
So it just makes the Victory that much sweeter.

Click to expand...

It doesn't make you a truer fan if you continue to support a rigged game.

XLIX said:

Don't worry, all those people promising to leave aren't going anywhere. They'll find some excuse to stay. Maybe the Patriots stay championship caliber, maybe Goodell retires or gets fired, who knows. But nobody is going anywhere.

Click to expand...

I don't expect anyone to be worried about whether I drop the NYJFL or not. All I know is that I will. It won't matter if they win or lose or if Fraudell stays or goes. The damage has been done. I will still have close to 60 years of Pats memories to discuss here though, so I'll have that going for me.

BTW, it seems like there are more people talking about leaving the NYJFL than there were before. It seems to be a growing list of fans.

1960Pats said:

I don't expect anyone to be worried about whether I drop the NYJFL or not. All I know is that I will. It won't matter if they win or lose or if Fraudell stays or goes. The damage has been done. I will still have close to 60 years of Pats memories to discuss here though, so I'll have that going for me.

BTW, it seems like there are more people talking about leaving the NYJFL than there were before. It seems to be a growing list of fans.

Click to expand...

There is no way the clowns named Kensil, Goodell and Vincent to name a few are going to cause me to leave the sport I love to follow......not a chance, in doing so, they win.

SCREW them........I can't wait until the day they get exposed for the lying cheating frauds that they are.........integrity Goodell?? Seriously???

I was here in 1960 and I'll be here long after those clowns are gone.

1960Pats said:

It doesn't make you a truer fan if you continue to support a rigged game.

Click to expand...

Which games were rigged?

I can understand turning off football, everyone has the right to watch what they want and support what they want, but I haven't seen any evidence of game rigging, and if this league office were engaged in it everyone would know because the one thing we all know they are is incompetent.

Go ahead and turn it off but spare us the fan purity routine.

Ivan said:

Go ahead and turn it off but spare us the fan purity routine.

Click to expand...

Wow, what a weird interpretation. @1960Pats was contesting a fan purity comment. The "fan purity routine" was actually brought up by someone that isn't "turning it off".

A little time spent trying to understand the others person's perspective before countering can often prevent such oversights.

fgssand said:

There is no way the clowns named Kensil, Goodell and Vincent to name a few are going to cause me to leave the sport I love to follow......not a chance, in doing so, they win.

SCREW them........I can't wait until the day they get exposed for the lying cheating frauds that they are.........integrity Goodell?? Seriously???

I was here in 1960 and I'll be here long after those clowns are gone.

Click to expand...

You'll have to get rid of some owners as well.

Clonamery said:

You'll have to get rid of some owners as well.

Click to expand...

Galeb said:

Wow, what a weird interpretation. @1960Pats was contesting a fan purity comment. The "fan purity routine" was actually brought up by someone that isn't "turning it off".

A little time spent trying to understand the others person's perspective before countering can often prevent such oversights.

Click to expand...

Fair enough, it was the first post I read this morning and my response was kneejerk but on the other hand I have seen him write that he's done with football for almost a year and a half, which as I said Is fine but just do it as it gets old hearing it.

Ivan said:

Which games were rigged?

I can understand turning off football, everyone has the right to watch what they want and support what they want, but I haven't seen any evidence of game rigging, and if this league office were engaged in it everyone would know because the one thing we all know they are is incompetent.

Go ahead and turn it off but spare us the fan purity routine.

Click to expand...

Some of the closest things I've seen to game rigging was that Jets game where they threw a flag on the Patriots (first time ever calling the penalty) after the Jets missed the FG in overtime to win it.. so they gave them another shot, 5 yards closer, and they won the game

JarOfMayo51 said:

Some of the closest things I've seen to game rigging was that Jets game where they threw a flag on the Patriots (first time ever calling the penalty) after the Jets missed the FG in overtime to win it.. so they gave them another shot, 5 yards closer, and they won the game

Click to expand...

I agree there are some egregious calls but I honestly don't think there are games being rigged. If this league office tried to fix games everyone would know it.

Anyone read Schefter's post this morning? I saw him tease it on TwitFace and am thinking it's a rehash of Reiss' Sunday morning piece (it's been 5 weeks, should hear something soon).

My only ESPN clicks go to Reiss on Sunday mornings, after that I've used up my weekly allotment.

QuantumMechanic said:

Interesting. If en banc is granted and those judges go senior before oral argument that means only 11 judges will hear the case, so only 6 needed for a Brady win (with 13 it would have needed 7). Presumably you'd start with 1 for Brady (Katzmann) and 2 for the NFL (Chin, Parker). So out of the remaining 8, Brady would have to get 5. On the other hand, if @PatsFanSince74 is correct about Chin, then maybe Brady would have Chin and so only need 4 more. Again, that all assumed en banc is granted.

FWIW, here are the rules for senior status judges re: en banc: IOP 35.1. En Banc Poll and Decision

Since the judges the MCI mentions won't go senior until later in the summer, presumably they'll still get to vote on whether to grant en banc review or not.

Click to expand...

OK. I'm confused.

As I read the rule, any judge who is not "senior" may vote on whether to grant the hearing, but if those two particular judges were not senior at the time of the vote and so could vote on whether to grant the hearing but are senior at the time of the hearing, then they would not be eligible to participate in the hearing. Is that right?

Parker is a senior judge. So, as I read the rule, he is not eligible to vote on whether there should be an en banc hearing but, because he was on the original panel, would be eligible to participate in the hearing itself. Is that right?

And, if both of those are right, then I could see how the discussions around this could be foggy and the internal court politics might be a little arcane for Katzmann to sort out. And maybe the fact that this is taking so long might not be all bad for Brady?

And, is it possible that the MCI actually stumbled on something useful for once?

1960Pats said:

I don't expect anyone to be worried about whether I drop the NYJFL or not. All I know is that I will. It won't matter if they win or lose or if Fraudell stays or goes. The damage has been done. I will still have close to 60 years of Pats memories to discuss here though, so I'll have that going for me.

BTW, it seems like there are more people talking about leaving the NYJFL than there were before. It seems to be a growing list of fans.

Click to expand...

Exactly. People are talking about it. And nobody is actually doing it.