OT: Sanchez ripped off by Ponzi scheme

ChrisR2223 said:

Perfect would be Roger getting arrested with a trans prostitute and a bunch of coke integrity

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We need some Michael Jackson Sandusky OJ Cosby dirt on that jerkoff... now that would be perfect.

I often wonder what the quality of financial advice is that athletes receive. Sanchez was towards the top of the salary food chain (whether that was fair or unfair, right or wrong is not the argument here) and yet he got taken by a small time con man.

I think teams could do their players a real service by providing them with coaching on how to choose investment advisers.

I wonder what percentage of these guys would be better off just getting an account at mega internet trading bank and buying s&p indexes with no middleman.

meatface said:

Nobody put a gun to the Jets head and made them draft him and then sign him to a big deal, Sanchez didn't deserve to get ripped off just because he used to play for the jets

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True, in Sanchez the Jets made a bad investment entirely of their own volition. Much like Sanchez did here. On the list of people I feel sympathy for, "terrible football player who got bilked out of some money he didn't really earn in the first place" doesn't rank too high.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy that it happened. I feel bad for the guy, he got screwed. It would take a very, very rare case for me to think positively of someone being defrauded out of their life's earnings (Pablo Sandoval immediately comes to mind). But it's not some tragedy that we can't joke about, especially when he'll probably make another $10-20M before he retires.

PatsFanSince74 said:

I often wonder what the quality of financial advice is that athletes receive. Sanchez was towards the top of the salary food chain (whether that was fair or unfair, right or wrong is not the argument here) and yet he got taken by a small time con man.

I think teams could do their players a real service by providing them with coaching on how to choose investment advisers.

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I always assumed players had a course like this available to them specifically for wealth management: NFL Players to Tackle Custom Program at Harvard Business School - News - Harvard Business School.

If not, they really should. Of all the people who come into tens of millions of dollars at some point in their lives, athletes are generally among the least financially sophisticated. Yeah, you can get pros to handle that stuff for you, but anyone with that kind of money should at least know enough to identify a good wealth manager from a predatory one.

I've also always assumed that the Krafts are willing to give their players advice and/or point them in the right direction, just because that seems like the sort of thing that Robert would pride himself on. Dunno if that's the case, though.

Wow, that article is wildly misleading, practically slanderous. "Ponzi scheme"? "You know what they say if it’s too good to be true then it probably is."? No. That's not at all what happened. Before we laugh and blame the victims:

Sanchez et al did exactly what we always say athletes should do with their millions.

They weren't looking for anything "too good to be true." They turned to to a credentialed, recommended financial advisor and asked for safe, conservative investments to protect their earnings and prepare for the future. (With the kind of sums they were making, you don't just log on to Vanguard.com and buy index funds. There are complex tax considerations, high-minimum investment options, etc.) And the advisor proceeded to use their money to fund his own startup.

IOW, they acted totally prudently and responsibly. And then they were robbed. I feel a lot more sorry for these guys than for the many players who squander their millions livin' large.

patchick said:

Wow, that article is wildly misleading, practically slanderous. "Ponzi scheme"? "You know what they say if it’s too good to be true then it probably is."? No. That's not at all what happened. Before we laugh and blame the victims:

Sanchez et al did exactly what we always say athletes should do with their millions.

They weren't looking for anything "too good to be true." They turned to to a credentialed, recommended financial advisor and asked for safe, conservative investments to protect their earnings and prepare for the future. (With the kind of sums they were making, you don't just log on to Vanguard.com and buy index funds. There are complex tax considerations, high-minimum investment options, etc.) And the advisor proceeded to use their money to fund his own startup.

IOW, they acted totally prudently and responsibly. And then they were robbed. I feel a lot more sorry for these guys than for the many players to squander their millions livin' large.

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You're absolutely right, and that point shouldn't get lost in all of the jokes. The broker had a fiduciary duty to his clients, and he invested against their interests to further his own, plain and simple. Hell of a gamble, and makes especially little sense when you're pumping the money into an early-stage startup that by its very nature has an 80%+ chance of failure. No idea what his end game was, he had to realize throughout that this was the most likely outcome, and that his malfeasance would be uncovered by even a cursory investigation.

There's really no way that a guy like Sanchez could avoid this, short of being financially literate enough to take a more active role in his investments rather than taking his broker's word as gospel. But this being Mark Sanchez, I'm going to rip on him anyway because he's Mark Sanchez.

I feel bad for the guy. These sports guys should look at who is successful financially... the Staubachs, Mannings, Shaquille O'Neals, Montanas... they got into real businesses (franchises, real estate, financial advice). I like what Peter Lynch used to say about the topic of investing: sink your money into things you understand.

And even there, you can lose money. Our broker, back in 2006, invested $700,000 of our money in what he said were very safe bonds... issued by Lehman Brothers. Poof.

patchick said:

Wow, that article is wildly misleading, practically slanderous. "Ponzi scheme"? "You know what they say if it’s too good to be true then it probably is."? No. That's not at all what happened. Before we laugh and blame the victims:

Sanchez et al did exactly what we always say athletes should do with their millions.

They weren't looking for anything "too good to be true." They turned to to a credentialed, recommended financial advisor and asked for safe, conservative investments to protect their earnings and prepare for the future. (With the kind of sums they were making, you don't just log on to Vanguard.com and buy index funds. There are complex tax considerations, high-minimum investment options, etc.) And the advisor proceeded to use their money to fund his own startup.

IOW, they acted totally prudently and responsibly. And then they were robbed. I feel a lot more sorry for these guys than for the many players who squander their millions livin' large.

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I have to admit that I haven't been following this very closely, so thanks for the summary. You said the guy was a "recommended financial advisor." Is it said anywhere who recommended him/them? Thanks.

patchick said:

Sanchez et al did exactly what we always say athletes should do with their millions.

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This is the impression I got. They went to an actual brokerage house and requested their money be invested in low risk vehicles. It isn't like they poured millions into a chain of downtown laundromats.

patchick said:

Wow, that article is wildly misleading, practically slanderous. "Ponzi scheme"? "You know what they say if it’s too good to be true then it probably is."? No. That's not at all what happened. Before we laugh and blame the victims:

Sanchez et al did exactly what we always say athletes should do with their millions.

They weren't looking for anything "too good to be true." They turned to to a credentialed, recommended financial advisor and asked for safe, conservative investments to protect their earnings and prepare for the future. (With the kind of sums they were making, you don't just log on to Vanguard.com and buy index funds. There are complex tax considerations, high-minimum investment options, etc.) And the advisor proceeded to use their money to fund his own startup.

IOW, they acted totally prudently and responsibly. And then they were robbed. I feel a lot more sorry for these guys than for the many players who squander their millions livin' large.

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I don't think Sanchez selected a financial advisor in the way that most of us would.

"According to the court filing, Narayan and Sanchez, who is set to be the starting quarterback for the Denver Broncos this season, attended the same church in California. Sanchez said in the court filing he believed the adviser was a devout Christian and highly qualified and had his NFL paychecks deposited directly into a brokerage account."

Sounds a bit like the Bernie Madoff scenario.

NormZauchin said:

I don't think Sanchez selected a financial advisor in the way that most of us would.

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I don't like to say what "most of us" would do, but financial advisors tend to work their "natural market" (i.e. friends and family) to the best of their ability. They also network at every opportunity, so it's not entirely unheard of for advisor to talk to people in the community at events, church groups, civic organizations, etc.

patchick said:

With the kind of sums they were making, you don't just log on to Vanguard.com and buy index funds. There are complex tax considerations, high-minimum investment options, etc.

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Excellent Post, but I think you go too far in dismissing the notion of simply Indexing and forgetting about it.

Mind you: I've never bothered Indexing, myself, so I could very well be wrong.

But it seems to me that if you had a few Million lying around, there wouldn't be much problem at all opening an OnLine Account with VanGuard or one'f the other Majors ~ as opposed to Fred's OnLine Brokerage ~ plunking down your 10 Million...and if you make, say, 2 Million that Year, after Brokerage Fees, and have to give 1 Million back to The Infernal Revenue Service...that doesn't seem very complex to me.

We're not talking about 401K's or IRA's or any Tax Deferral stuff.

Just staying Liquid while staying away from 3rd String Brokerages.

NormZauchin said:

I don't think Sanchez selected a financial advisor in the way that most of us would.

"According to the court filing, Narayan and Sanchez, who is set to be the starting quarterback for the Denver Broncos this season, attended the same church in California. Sanchez said in the court filing he believed the adviser was a devout Christian and highly qualified and had his NFL paychecks deposited directly into a brokerage account."

Sounds a bit like the Bernie Madoff scenario.

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There it is.

I get the impression that virtually every one of these Athletes Loses Millions scenarios transpires because they gave their Millions to some Schmo that they met at a Party or at the Church Picnic.

The major mistake Dirty Sanchez made was attending the WRONG church.

As I've preached to all of you, my Patsfan brethren, you should seriously consider attending and becoming a member of..

JOE KERR'S CHURCH OF GOOD LOOKS

here's a sample blessing from our very own Pastor Buck..."my son...YOU look good!"

this month only, get blessed for HALF PRICE! Yes, $250 every Sunday this month and YOU can be separated from the meandering masses of misled miscreants. Tell yourself " I look good ,darnit ..and I want the world to know!. Come this weekend..and remember..bring CASH.

XLIX said:

I don't like to say what "most of us" would do, but financial advisors tend to work their "natural market" (i.e. friends and family) to the best of their ability. They also network at every opportunity, so it's not entirely unheard of for advisor to talk to people in the community at events, church groups, civic organizations, etc.

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Perhaps I should change "most of us" to "a prudent investor."
When one has wealth in the millions of dollars, trusting someone in an affinity group, rather than doing due diligence by consulting a variety of financial planners and financial organizations, is, to say the least, lazy and naïve.

NormZauchin said:

Perhaps I should change "most of us" to "a prudent investor."
When one has wealth in the millions of dollars, trusting someone in an affinity group, rather than doing due diligence by consulting a variety of financial planners and financial organizations, is, to say the least, lazy and naïve.

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yeah...like having your head stuck up someone else's azz.

PatsFanSince74 said:

I often wonder what the quality of financial advice is that athletes receive. Sanchez was towards the top of the salary food chain (whether that was fair or unfair, right or wrong is not the argument here) and yet he got taken by a small time con man.

I think teams could do their players a real service by providing them with coaching on how to choose investment advisers.

Click to expand...

Probably have Chris Carter advising them. Seriously, I would avoid any advice from the NFLMafia.

NormZauchin said:

I don't think Sanchez selected a financial advisor in the way that most of us would.

"According to the court filing, Narayan and Sanchez, who is set to be the starting quarterback for the Denver Broncos this season, attended the same church in California. Sanchez said in the court filing he believed the adviser was a devout Christian and highly qualified and had his NFL paychecks deposited directly into a brokerage account."

Sounds a bit like the Bernie Madoff scenario.

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Except that Madoff used to be the head of the NASDAQ, which would certainly give him some credibility among those too lazy to do their due diligence.

Giving all your money to somebody who seemed like a nice guy, for whatever reason, is foolish [as you stated].

Good advice given here previously. I'm an engineer with an MBA who manages his own mutual fund portfolio, but diverse group of Index funds from efficient institutions like Vanguard or lesser so Fidelity are a good 1st choice for those unable or unwilling to pay much attention to investing
Selecting a personal financial advisor because you share a group affinity is fraught with risk. I was concerned about what my wife should do if I dropped dead from one of my various cancers, etc. So when neighbors invited us and others to a free dinner at a nice restaurant hosted by their advisor, I said "Yeah, free dinner!". Not one word during the dinner about how the advisor invested the $ or details on past years performances, instead all we heard were testimonials about what a great guy he was. My guess is that he sells them various annuities which carry a nice commission. Pissed him off when he called me up later and I cited the lack of info as a reason I wouldn't be investing.

There are well known public persons who simply invest your money in appropriate mutual funds congruent with your goals for a fee. I don't use them but I know others well who do and they have had decade+ good results. That's where I'd send my wife.