Messi @ Foxborough

PatsFanSince74 · Jun 19, 2016

Rainy-Day Patriot said:
I had the luck to be in the fourth row of the endzone, right behind the camera well, so it was sort of a first row, to see Messi score his goal. I am hardly a soccer fan, but I love tournaments and playoffs in almost any sport. I could not pass up the opportunity to see these great athletes, especially Messi, do what they do best.

Whenever Messi was not part of the action, he was walking around. He was pretty much the only player on the field walking around. What's up with that? Was he hurt? Was he conserving his energy? Was he being a field general? Was he being a prima donna? Was I hallucinating?

I'm sure there is insight to be had.

(For example, I was utterly shocked by the penalty kick. I could not make heads or tails of what the hell just happened right in front of me. I mean, was he joking? Did some Argentinian drug lord threaten his family? Was it some sportsmanship thing where you take a half-hearted (quarter-hearted?) penalty kick if you feel that it was called in error? I had no clue, until I did a little reading and learned the history and strategy.)

Thanks!

There's an old saying, which I wish I had coined, that the great NHL players have the ability to "go where the puck is going to be."

Messi's job is kin of along those lines. It's his (only) job to be in position to score, to anticipate what is going to happen and how a play is (or is not) evolving and then be in the right place at the right time to strike for a Goal, which he does quite well and quite often. If he appeared to someone who doesn't watch a lot of soccer to be just "walking around," well, I doubt that would bother him very much.

Major ********** · Jun 19, 2016

borg said:
Regarding the Argentinian debate of greatest in country, Maradona's drive was insane and I can understand why the locals elevate Diego above Messi. It was a different game back then Maradona never had to maneuver thru packed in defenses that Messi faces every day….but Messi doesn't possess the open field speed to weave thru more spread out defenses that Maradona faced. Different skill set but Maradona was a force of nature. Messi is a gift…no right answer.

Maradona had to deal with butchers like Claudio Gentile. Defenders got away with murder back then. I don't think Messi would have made it physically in the days Maradona played. Especially in Serie A. I can only imagine what Maradona could do in todays game where defenders get yellows for looking at someone funny.

Major ********** · Jun 19, 2016

long distance said:
This way of penalty kick was introduced by Czech player Antonin Panenka in 1976.

Goalkeepers try to anticipate the corner (even moving or throwing themselves before the kick - which is against the rules but rarely punished by referees). Panenka used this (minor cheating by goalkeepers) to his advantage and became an instant legend. Today its a more risky shot to take since goalkeepers tend to wait a bit longer before throwing themselves. It is still pretty successful style - the problem is that you look pretty stupid when it doesnt work (remember the Colts snap last year ...)

Back then Keepers weren't allowed to move at all at the line pre kick. They had to pick a side and pray. Today they are allowed to move. They also have the benefit of film study and statistical analysis to help them. Plus keepers these days are physical specimen. The best keepers in the game are also some the best athletes on their teams. I mean Neuer can play the field in a pinch and wouldn't embarrass himself. The guy stepped up and kicked (and scored) a PK in the CL final against Chelsea when some of his teammates didn't have the balls to (*cough*Arjen Roben *cough*).

upstater1 · Jun 19, 2016

With Messi, it's the intangibles. He draws 3 guys and opens up the game for the rest of the team. I acknowledge that Ronaldo is great but so hard to root for a guy that is constantly crying.

ausbacker · Jun 19, 2016

upstater1 said:
With Messi, it's the intangibles. He draws 3 guys and opens up the game for the rest of the team. I acknowledge that Ronaldo is great but so hard to root for a guy that is constantly crying.

Messi's ability to create space where there is none is something. I wouldn't be surprised to find out he's a football savant because his ability to read the play and run into space before the ball has been delivered is out of this world. Add clinical finishing skills and you have someone who can be considered the equal of Maradonna and Pelé.

FCB02062 · Jun 19, 2016

ausbacker said:
********. Messi is an incredible talent and is clearly, along with Ronaldo, in the discussion for best player in the world and perhaps this generation.

Did u watch the final in Brazil? Mascherano pretty much kept it from being a 3-0 for Die Mannschafft

FCB02062 · Jun 19, 2016

Name me one goal of Messi that is the magnitude of Zidane's volley vs Leverkusen??????

ausbacker · Jun 19, 2016

FCB02062 said:
Did u watch the final in Brazil? Mascherano pretty much kept it from being a 3-0 for Die Mannschafft

If someone doesn't agree with you, is it your default position to question if they know what they are talking about? Yes, I watch a lot of sport, football/soccer/whatever you want to call it being one of them.

Mascherano is a superb player but he's not in the conversation for the best hybrid defensive midfielder/centreback. That isn't a knock on him because guys like Beckenbauer and Maldini were transcendent talents. This is where I'm a little biased as I've loved watching Maldini play over the years.

Pushing all that aside, Messi is a stunning talent and couldn't disagree more with you about him.

FCB02062 · Jun 19, 2016

ausbacker said:
If someone doesn't agree with you, is it your default position to question if they know what they are talking about? Yes, I watch a lot of sport, football/soccer/whatever you want to call it being one of them.

Mascherano is a superb player but he's not in the conversation for the best hybrid defensive midfielder/centreback. That isn't a knock on him because guys like Beckenbauer and Maldini were transcendent talents. This is where I'm a little biased as I've loved watching Maldini play over the years.

Pushing all that aside, Messi is a stunning talent and couldn't disagree more with you about him.

I never said he's not great...simply think he's a tad overrated...if he's the best of all time he at least puts his last gasp free kick in Brazil on frame....he totally Sergio Ramos'd it....

ausbacker · Jun 19, 2016

FCB02062 said:
I never said he's not great...simply think he's a tad overrated...if he's the best of all time he at least puts his last gasp free kick in Brazil on frame....he totally Sergio Ramos'd it....

Yeah, but c'mon man, it happens. If you rate players on one or two good or bad plays, we'd have very different appraisals of some of the best players of all time.

The problem with guys like Messi is that they are so good all the time that if they go 2 or 3 games without doing something incredible, people consider them to be in a form slump. To me, that's unfair. He routinely embarrasses world class players not mugs on the pitch.

Ivan · Jun 20, 2016

ausbacker said:
Messi's ability to create space where there is none is something. I wouldn't be surprised to find out he's a football savant because his ability to read the play and run into space before the ball has been delivered is out of this world. Add clinical finishing skills and you have someone who can be considered the equal of Maradonna and Pelé.

Agree completely, the, assist he had against Venezuela was a thing of beauty. Imo his greatest strength is always knowing when to create the shot and when to give it up as he did with that curling chip into the box that led to that first goal
Much as I want the US to move on i just don't think they have anyone who can stay with Messi.

FCB02062 · Jun 20, 2016

This thread should be put on hold r.e. Messi until summer 2018, when we will see him get his fourth bite at the apple under the bright lights of the World Cup...

I firmly hold that a player has a hard time being included with the likes of Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer, Zidane, heck, even Brazilian Ronaldo or fat Ronaldinho until they carry their team to a star on their team's jersey....

dales804 · Jun 20, 2016

All of this talk of Zidane and nobody posts this:

AzorianPats · Jun 20, 2016

FCB02062 said:
Name me one goal of Messi that is the magnitude of Zidane's volley vs Leverkusen??????

CL final vs Manchester United in Rome...

RobertWeathers · Jun 20, 2016

dales804 said:
All of this talk of Zidane and nobody posts this:

So classic.

RobertWeathers · Jun 20, 2016

FCB02062 said:
This thread should be put on hold r.e. Messi until summer 2018, when we will see him get his fourth bite at the apple under the bright lights of the World Cup...

I firmly hold that a player has a hard time being included with the likes of Pele, Maradona, Beckenbauer, Zidane, heck, even Brazilian Ronaldo or fat Ronaldinho until they carry their team to a star on their team's jersey....

Hell hes still #2 Argentinian GoAT behind Maradonna and I think he always will be.

patsbrasilpatriotas · Jun 20, 2016

upstater1 said:
Oh? That Argentina team had no business being in the WC final. Not talented enough. Great defense, yeah. But nothing other than Messi up front (Aguero was hurt). Messi took them there. And doesn't Messi have a couple Champions League Championships? 2015 was his last (also Brady's last championship). Just because they went out in the semis this year (Brady did too) doesn't mean he comes up small regularly. I would say that's true of Ronaldo.

Argentina... Great team dont win **** since what 92?

patsbrasilpatriotas · Jun 20, 2016

BlueThunder said:
Let me ask this then...Who is the Tom Brady of soccer

Pele ...

patsbrasilpatriotas · Jun 20, 2016

ausbacker said:
Messi's ability to create space where there is none is something. I wouldn't be surprised to find out he's a football savant because his ability to read the play and run into space before the ball has been delivered is out of this world. Add clinical finishing skills and you have someone who can be considered the equal of Maradonna and Pelé.

No, you* cant

Pelé

3 WC
1120 games played and 1033 goals scored
7 Ballom d Or ( Playing in south america...)
and the list goes on

AzorianPats · Jun 20, 2016

Another thing..

If you want a guy that comes up short regularly its not Messi or Ronaldo, but Ibraimovich..

Messi @ Foxborough

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