Messi @ Foxborough

Foxborough became maybe the only stadium that hosted two greatest football players of our time in their play-off games.

long distance said:

Foxborough became maybe the only stadium that hosted two greatest football players of our time in their play-off games.

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Was Zidane there tonight? . After all, Messi has come up very small on the biggest stage....

FCB02062 said:

Was Zidane there tonight? . After all, Messi has come up very small on the biggest stage....

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Oh? That Argentina team had no business being in the WC final. Not talented enough. Great defense, yeah. But nothing other than Messi up front (Aguero was hurt). Messi took them there. And doesn't Messi have a couple Champions League Championships? 2015 was his last (also Brady's last championship). Just because they went out in the semis this year (Brady did too) doesn't mean he comes up small regularly. I would say that's true of Ronaldo.

Is that European Football?

upstater1 said:

Oh? That Argentina team had no business being in the WC final. Not talented enough. Great defense, yeah. But nothing other than Messi up front (Aguero washurt). Messi took them there. And doesn't Messi have a couple Champions League Championships? 2015 was his last (also Brady's last championship). Just because they kwent out in the semis this year (Brady did too) doesn't mean he comes up small regularly. I would say that's true of Ronaldo.

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Messi wasn't even the best player in his side - that was Mascherano....Messi plays on the best team money can buy in Barcelona...u can't compare the accomplishments of Zidane and Messi - goals, maybe....trophy case, no way....

FCB02062 said:

Messi wasn't even the best player in his side - that was Mascherano....Messi plays on the best team money can buy in Barcelona...u can't compare the accomplishments of Zidane and Messi - goals, maybe....trophy case, no way....

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********. Messi is an incredible talent and is clearly, along with Ronaldo, in the discussion for best player in the world and perhaps this generation.

upstater1 said:

Oh? That Argentina team had no business being in the WC final. Not talented enough. Great defense, yeah. But nothing other than Messi up front (Aguero was hurt). Messi took them there. And doesn't Messi have a couple Champions League Championships? 2015 was his last (also Brady's last championship). Just because they went out in the semis this year (Brady did too) doesn't mean he comes up small regularly. I would say that's true of Ronaldo.

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The problem with a lot of the way people look at guys like Messi, Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic etc. is if their nation isn't or doesn't experience ultimate international success, that's somehow a slight on them. That's absurd given there are teams that are simply better than them. Germany and Spain have had a phenomenal few years and now you're looking at a young Belgium side ready to take over. Hell, Portugal is basically carried into major competitions by Ronaldo. There's only so much you can do when you're taking on the best of the world in a knockout situation.

upstater1 said:

Oh? That Argentina team had no business being in the WC final. Not talented enough. Great defense, yeah. But nothing other than Messi up front (Aguero was hurt). Messi took them there. And doesn't Messi have a couple Champions League Championships? 2015 was his last (also Brady's last championship). Just because they went out in the semis this year (Brady did too) doesn't mean he comes up small regularly. I would say that's true of Ronaldo.

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Real Madrid has won the CL twice in the past couple years, I definitely wouldn't call Ronaldo a choker or anything like that. He and Messi are two of the best ever.

BradyFTW! said:

Real Madrid has won the CL twice in the past couple years, I definitely wouldn't call Ronaldo a choker or anything like that. He and Messi are two of the best ever.

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Sometimes Ronaldo tends to get tight at crucial moments. He is the Peyton Manning of soccer. Tell me that people are surprised when he misses a crucial PK. It tends to happen too much to him. I think if he were more clutch people would consider him a better player than Messi based on physical ability alone.

Let me ask this then...Who is the Tom Brady of soccer

BlueThunder said:

Let me ask this then...Who is the Tom Brady of soccer

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Payton Manning. With that forehead, he could "head" the ball 100 yards!

I had the luck to be in the fourth row of the endzone, right behind the camera well, so it was sort of a first row, to see Messi score his goal. I am hardly a soccer fan, but I love tournaments and playoffs in almost any sport. I could not pass up the opportunity to see these great athletes, especially Messi, do what they do best.

Whenever Messi was not part of the action, he was walking around. He was pretty much the only player on the field walking around. What's up with that? Was he hurt? Was he conserving his energy? Was he being a field general? Was he being a prima donna? Was I hallucinating?

I'm sure there is insight to be had.

(For example, I was utterly shocked by the penalty kick. I could not make heads or tails of what the hell just happened right in front of me. I mean, was he joking? Did some Argentinian drug lord threaten his family? Was it some sportsmanship thing where you take a half-hearted (quarter-hearted?) penalty kick if you feel that it was called in error? I had no clue, until I did a little reading and learned the history and strategy.)

Thanks!

The "no national team hardware" argument used to devalue players like Messi, Ronaldo, etc is such garbage. These studs play against the world's all-stars in approximately 45-50 inter league and Champions league games each year and the quality of soccer is so far superior to these semi-annual national team "showcases for their country's all stars.

Zidane was an icon and it was a shame European football hadn't reached USA TV screens like today or Zidane would be in our conscience more than it is.

Regarding Messi and Ronaldo, I look at them like this
1A) Messi……Greatest SCORER……best balance I've ever seen / ball sticks to his feet / ability to maneuver in tightest box / as accurate a shooter as I have ever seen. And in recent years, Messi has become an elite assist man with pin point accuracy, especially over the top of defenses. A weapon
1B) Ronaldo……Greatest ATHLETE……. I have ever seen play soccer with greatest physical tools. See his vertical tells you his athleticism is off the charts. I love the guys drive, his speed, his overall game

Personally, I love watching Messi play because I see magic when he possesses the ball.
Ask me who I would build a team around….using sound judgement I'd pick Ronaldo because of his total game……but….pure goal scoring ability is such an elusive commodity and Messi is in a league of his own so I'm discarding sound judgement and taking the special player. It's like taking Curry over Lebron….except Messi has been special for a decade.

Regarding the Argentinian debate of greatest in country, Maradona's drive was insane and I can understand why the locals elevate Diego above Messi. It was a different game back then Maradona never had to maneuver thru packed in defenses that Messi faces every day….but Messi doesn't possess the open field speed to weave thru more spread out defenses that Maradona faced. Different skill set but Maradona was a force of nature. Messi is a gift…no right answer.

Rainy-Day Patriot said:

Whenever Messi was not part of the action, he was walking around. He was pretty much the only player on the field walking around. What's up with that? Was he hurt? Was he conserving his energy? Was he being a field general? Was he being a prima donna? Was I hallucinating?

I'm sure there is insight to be had.

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First off…let's eradicate the Prima Donna label immediately. Messi is the antithesis of Prima Donna. He gets mauled on the soccer pitch, day in day out, and never performs the histrionics that so many do (see Suarez). And given the quality and quantity of his assist making, the guy is as unselfish a star (see Brady) on the planet.
Regarding the lack of motion……he knows how the offense gets built up and when its his turn to be ready. This is especially apparent when playing for Barcelona. Factor in the reality that he manages his game, especially during weak competition, he needs to remain healthy for this tournament and for his club goals. I cannot stress how much punishment this guy receives with purposeful tackling. He's a veteran, he picks his spots
Regarding the penalty kick (I didn't see it)….for some reason the greatest scorer on the planet is not an exceptional PK guy. And when you consider how lethal the guy is on free kicks from 20-30 yards out, it is a puzzle.
After 90 minutes…..1 goal, at least two amazing assists that I know of…….talk about efficiency …from the oppositions defensive focal point.

borg said:

The "no national team hardware" argument used to devalue players like Messi, Ronaldo, etc is such garbage. These studs play against the world's all-stars in approximately 45-50 inter league and Champions league games each year and the quality of soccer is so far superior to these semi-annual national team "showcases for their country's all stars.

Zidane was an icon and it was a shame European football hadn't reached USA TV screens like today or Zidane would be in our conscience more than it is.

Regarding Messi and Ronaldo, I look at them like this
1A) Messi……Greatest SCORER……best balance I've ever seen / ball sticks to his feet / ability to maneuver in tightest box / as accurate a shooter as I have ever seen. And in recent years, Messi has become an elite assist man with pin point accuracy, especially over the top of defenses. A weapon
1B) Ronaldo……Greatest ATHLETE……. I have ever seen play soccer with greatest physical tools. See his vertical tells you his athleticism is off the charts. I love the guys drive, his speed, his overall game

Personally, I love watching Messi play because I see magic when he possesses the ball.
Ask me who I would build a team around….using sound judgement I'd pick Ronaldo because of his total game……but….pure goal scoring ability is such an elusive commodity and Messi is in a league of his own so I'm discarding sound judgement and taking the special player. It's like taking Curry over Lebron….except Messi has been special for a decade.

Regarding the Argentinian debate of greatest in country, Maradona's drive was insane and I can understand why the locals elevate Diego above Messi. It was a different game back then Maradona never had to maneuver thru packed in defenses that Messi faces every day….but Messi doesn't possess the open field speed to weave thru more spread out defenses that Maradona faced. Different skill set but Maradona was a force of nature. Messi is a gift…no right answer.

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Maradona over everybody else for me, I think people have to remember it was a different game back then, it was much more physical in the late 80's early 90's, must make it easier for the creative players now. He was an absolute beast. You have to wonder what feats him, pele and best could have achieved these days.

borg said:

The "no national team hardware" argument used to devalue players like Messi, Ronaldo, etc is such garbage. These studs play against the world's all-stars in approximately 45-50 inter league and Champions league games each year and the quality of soccer is so far superior to these semi-annual national team "showcases for their country's all stars.

Zidane was an icon and it was a shame European football hadn't reached USA TV screens like today or Zidane would be in our conscience more than it is.

Regarding Messi and Ronaldo, I look at them like this
1A) Messi……Greatest SCORER……best balance I've ever seen / ball sticks to his feet / ability to maneuver in tightest box / as accurate a shooter as I have ever seen. And in recent years, Messi has become an elite assist man with pin point accuracy, especially over the top of defenses. A weapon
1B) Ronaldo……Greatest ATHLETE……. I have ever seen play soccer with greatest physical tools. See his vertical tells you his athleticism is off the charts. I love the guys drive, his speed, his overall game

Personally, I love watching Messi play because I see magic when he possesses the ball.
Ask me who I would build a team around….using sound judgement I'd pick Ronaldo because of his total game……but….pure goal scoring ability is such an elusive commodity and Messi is in a league of his own so I'm discarding sound judgement and taking the special player. It's like taking Curry over Lebron….except Messi has been special for a decade.

Regarding the Argentinian debate of greatest in country, Maradona's drive was insane and I can understand why the locals elevate Diego above Messi. It was a different game back then Maradona never had to maneuver thru packed in defenses that Messi faces every day….but Messi doesn't possess the open field speed to weave thru more spread out defenses that Maradona faced. Different skill set but Maradona was a force of nature. Messi is a gift…no right answer.

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Whats incredible about both Messi and Ronaldo is how long they've been at their peek. Brazilian Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, those guys had 4-5 years of world class play. Ronaldo and Messi have been playing at this elite level for almost a decade.

I pull for Ronaldo because im Portuguese, but i def appreciate Messi. He makes the other 10 guys better. Thats a special trait. He uses his size (or lack of) to his advantage. Ive never seen a player dribble/ball control the way he does. He has physical limitations though, but credit to himx he always gets up.

Ronaldo is more of a forward nowadays. More selfish, hes a primadonna. With that when Ronaldo clicking (unfortunately for me last night wasnt one of them) he can take over a game. Even in a bad game, hes spraying the net with shots.

Both great talents. Im glad ive watched them both.

borg said:

First off…let's eradicate the Prima Donna label immediately. Messi is the antithesis of Prima Donna. He gets mauled on the soccer pitch, day in day out, and never performs the histrionics that so many do (see Suarez).

After 90 minutes…..1 goal, at least two amazing assists that I know of…….talk about efficiency …from the oppositions defensive focal point.

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Thanks. That helps. Messi was definitely mugged many a time.

I was referring to the PK by Seijas. I think it was the only of the game.

AzorianPats said:

Whats incredible about both Messi and Ronaldo is how long they've been at their peek. Brazilian Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, those guys had 4-5 years of world class play. Ronaldo and Messi have been playing at this elite level for almost a decade.

I pull for Ronaldo because im Portuguese, but i def appreciate Messi. He makes the other 10 guys better. Thats a special trait. He uses his size (or lack of) to his advantage. Ive never seen a player dribble/ball control the way he does. He has physical limitations though, but credit to himx he always gets up.

Ronaldo is more of a forward nowadays. More selfish, hes a primadonna. With that when Ronaldo clicking (unfortunately for me last night wasnt one of them) he can take over a game. Even in a bad game, hes spraying the net with shots.

Both great talents. Im glad ive watched them both.

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Ronaldo is the better athlete but Messi is the better football player. That's how I see it.

The highlight tapes of of other former greats like Zidane or Maradona.. Messi usually has a tape like that every season. Nobody has better vision or touch.. best of all time.

Well, Brady=Messi; Manning=C.Ronaldo actually draws a pretty good picture to those not into football/soccer regarding both on and off the field.

I was lucky to start following Messi from his early age of 16. When I first saw him play i had a special feeling I was witnessing a football Messiah. For 13 years he is confirming my first feeling. When football was becoming more athletic and tactical (unlike in NFL in football that equals boring) - his magic transcended the possibilities of the game and together with Ronaldinho and Xavi he gave the world back the “jogo bonito“ showing that a beautiful, attacking game is still possible. Their success had big consequences for the world of football as more top teams opted for attacking football.

(nice beginning of his magic - Relive Messi's first goal for Barcelona from a Ronaldinho assist | Daily Mail Online)

There are actually many uncanny comparisons with TB: he came to the game against all odds (lacking a growth hormone almost remaining a true midget - you can find stories easily if interested), he entered the first team (Barcelona) much earlier than expected (at age 16) on account of many injuries to the starters and he stayed with the team on the top of his game ever since, making success with different sets of teammates, making everyone better with his playmaking, staying humble on and off the field etc.

And despite breaking all the records his greatest achievement is his game not the scores. He makes plays that are not possible even on playstation. His genius stays ahead of all computer fantasies.

I am happy that yesterday two transcendent sport destinies crossed on the field of Foxborough.

Rainy-Day Patriot said:

Thanks. That helps. Messi was definitely mugged many a time.

I was referring to the PK by Seijas. I think it was the only of the game.

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This way of penalty kick was introduced by Czech player Antonin Panenka in 1976.


Goalkeepers try to anticipate the corner (even moving or throwing themselves before the kick - which is against the rules but rarely punished by referees). Panenka used this (minor cheating by goalkeepers) to his advantage and became an instant legend. Today its a more risky shot to take since goalkeepers tend to wait a bit longer before throwing themselves. It is still pretty successful style - the problem is that you look pretty stupid when it doesnt work (remember the Colts snap last year ...)