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The Solidest Defense In Many Years


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Right, the DL was getting pushed around. Sheared played well in spots, but he also got pushed around in the running game (though he could shoot gaps).

I'm not so sure about that. I thought Sheard was very good vs the run and better at setting the edge and playing with better leverage than Jones did.

With guys like Pot Roast and year 2 of Malcom Brown and health, the run D will be a strength this year.
 
An above average DL featuring:

Sheard - Brown - Knighton - Ninkovich
(with strong depth behind them)

Arguably the best LB duo in the NFL:

Collins - Hightower

What will be an elite secondary featuring:

A top 5 FS
A top 5 SS
A top 5 CB
A solid system CB2
Jones, Roberts, Coleman filling out strong depth

The unit honestly reminds me of the Seattle defenses. The back 7 is as good as anyone in football. If Butler makes a third year leap to All-Pro caliber ability similar to Sherman than this defense can compete for the best in the NFL.

1 Denver: Lost Jackson, Trevathan, and Ware's back is giving out at TC.
2 Seattle: An elite unit that lacks depth
3 Arizona: An elite unit lacking the LBers we have.
4 Panthers: Lost top 3 CBs and starting S.
5 Patriots: Lost Jones/Hicks/Easley, gained Knighton/Long, has strong CB depth first time in ages, Brown/Butler look to make big leaps.

Three months until football!
 

The starting 11 is, if anything, a consistent group of performers at all three levels. This may not be a spectacular group of individual players other than Collins, who does some eye-popping things every once in a while.

This Patriots defense has depth, talent, speed and experience at all 11 spots that reminds me of the 2010 Packers that had Woodson, Clay Matthews, BJ Raji, Tramon Williams, AJ Hawk, etc. That defense wasn't loaded with superstars, but had talent all over the place, and several 1st and 2nd year players who made a difference.

What I like is the consistency of the new guys. Pot Roast Knighton has always been impressive. Chris Long has something to prove at his age, but he's clearly motivated to make an important contribution, even if it's just on passing downs (what is a non-passing down in the NFL any more?)

I also like the signing of Frank Kearse. Not so much for what he's done, but because his nickname is Big Spoon. For my money, the Patriots will have the all-nickname team when Big Spoon and Pot Roast are in there on rushing downs.
 
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The staring 11 is, if anything, a consistent group of performers at all three levels. This may not be a spectacular group of individual players other than Collins, who does some eye-popping things every once in a while.

This Patriots defense has depth, talent, speed and experience at all 11 spots that reminds me of the 2010 Packers that had Woodson, Clay Matthews, BJ Raji, Tramon Williams, AJ Hawk, etc. That defense wasn't loaded with superstars, but had talent all over the place, and several 1st and 2nd year players who made a difference.

What I like is the consistency of the new guys. Pot Roast Knighton has always been impressive. Chris Long has something to prove at his age, but he's clearly motivated to make an important contribution, even if it's just on passing downs (what is a non-passing down in the NFL any more?)

I also like the signing of Frank Kearse. Not so much for what he's done, but because his nickname is Big Spoon. For my money, the Patriots will have the all-nickname team when Big Spoon and Pot Roast are in there on rushing downs.

I'll be bold and fanboyish here....I think they will have the best secondary in the NFL next year.
 
Sheared will be playing more snaps. Ryan needs to be able to play the double move better, the whole DL needs to be more consistent vs the run. The number 3 corner is??? Who is the 3rd lb?

Lots to prove


that doesn't sound like a whole lot
 
Yeah, might be the goodest in years.
 
I heard some people talking today who claim to know Collins and they were saying he really doesn't like living here in New England (note I did not say playing) ... I really hope they were talking out of their ass ... just wondering if anyone else has ever heard the same?
 
I still have to be sure that Sheard, Long and Flowers are going to produce some pressure, in the way that Jones. Plus, we don't really have a penetretor-type DT anymore.

I'm curious to see if Ryan can keep his level of play. He has some consistency problems, but at his best, he is a damn good CB 2.

All in all, i guess I prefer last year's defense, post Hicks acquisition ( and without seeing this one in action), but it is close
Respect. Sheard had eight sacks last year and missed games. Go back and watch what he and Collins did as a two-man wrecking crew against Dallas last season. He play inside and out extremely well. Malcolm Brown showed late last season that he can be a "[penetrator]-type" very effectively.

I do agree Ryan is inconsistent at times and a damn good CB2. I think we definitely lose him at the end of 2016, which also makes Butler's situation very unique to corners seeking big deals in years past.

You have to prefer last year's defense because this year's version hasn't played yet.:p;)

I think this year's defense really has the ability to be special. I'm not talking like those early teams or even 2014. I'm tempering myself a bit on this one. But on paper and based on what I've seen from the returning guys I truly think this team can be damn good. I see few holes even at this stage. Injury is the only thing that worries me.
 
An above average DL featuring:

Sheard - Brown - Knighton - Ninkovich
(with strong depth behind them)

Arguably the best LB duo in the NFL:

Collins - Hightower

What will be an elite secondary featuring:

A top 5 FS
A top 5 SS
A top 5 CB
A solid system CB2
Jones, Roberts, Coleman filling out strong depth

The unit honestly reminds me of the Seattle defenses. The back 7 is as good as anyone in football. If Butler makes a third year leap to All-Pro caliber ability similar to Sherman than this defense can compete for the best in the NFL.

1 Denver: Lost Jackson, Trevathan, and Ware's back is giving out at TC.
2 Seattle: An elite unit that lacks depth
3 Arizona: An elite unit lacking the LBers we have.
4 Panthers: Lost top 3 CBs and starting S.
5 Patriots: Lost Jones/Hicks/Easley, gained Knighton/Long, has strong CB depth first time in ages, Brown/Butler look to make big leaps.

Three months until football!

Got rid of Easley.... :)

They will be top 5 if stay healthy and will extend the top 3
 
I've read this in this thread somewhere..but Malcolm Brown could absolutely play the penetrating DT. He has the tools to be an all around DT. I still dont think some people have realized how high his ceiling is. When he was let loose he wrecked havoc.
 
I have a feeling Collins and Hightower are going to be tough to resign...tougher than I originally thought. They need to lock these guys up before the season in my opinion.
 
Ninkovich - Branch - Brown - Sheard
Flowers - Knighton - Valentine - Long
Rufus J - Kuhn - Kearse - GeeNo Grossem

Collins - Hightower - McClellin
Freeny - Roberts - KGH
Humber - Snyder - CJJ

Butler - Ryan
Coleman - CJones
Roberts - JJones
Bentley - LeBlanc

McCourty - Chung
Harmon - Richards
Slater - Ebner
Vereen - Thompson

Some observations:

There is no athleticism whatsoever at DT. Not only did the Naked Emperor fail to address this glaring need, he deliberately avoided addressing it and in fact divested himself of anybody even resembling a 3-tech. Horribly, horribly short-sighted.

Is there enough cap space, and real need, to keep both Branch & Knighton? If everybody at DT remains healthy and plays to his potential, then it would not shock to see Branch being released before Opening Day in order to create enough space to fill a need at another position.

Flowers & Chris Long really, really have to help offset both the loss of Chandler Jones and the decline of Ninkovich. I can see Rufus Johnson being kept as the 5th DE ahead of GeeNo Grossem, who is nothing more than useless, infuriatingly over-drafted trash.

The LB "depth" is non-existent. Roberts & KGH might have to be not only expected to make the 53, but also counted-on to contribute on defense. KGH in particular is the only one on the 90 even remotely capable of covering RBs & TEs. Jonny Freeny completely sucks, and Shea McClellin, dollar-for-dollar, is one of the worst free-agent signings of the entire off-season, by any team. That money (and less, actually) would have been better-spent on former Titans LB Zach Brown, who is a much better fit for this defense.
Fortunately, there are still several vet FAs available to provide real depth, in case the Fake Genius & his sycophants ever decide to take an honest look at the situation.

I'm not real happy about going into another season without a veteran presence at CB, but they kinda got away with it last year. Perhaps they're waiting for Tarell Brown to heal, though I bet they've simply moved in another direction. I wouldn't say No to former Bengal & Michigan alum Leon Hall, if his surgically-repaired back is good-to-go.

Overall, the defense has a chance to be top-12-caliber if all of its key contributors remain healthy (and we all should realize how unlikely that is). The pass rush, from both the edge & most especially the interior, is a huge concern, as is the ability to cover TEs & RBs and prevent 3rd-down conversions. I still cross my fingers whenever a long pass is thrown, though it didn't seem to kill us last year, except maybe at Denver.
Those here dreaming of top-5, or even top-3, are not just drinking too much kool-aid, they are drowning in it.
 
The key to the success of this defense is it's positional flexibility and depth. Those are critical factors in this age of injuries and multiple offenses.

Some comments on the comments

Last year's defense lost 2 important pieces in Jones and Hicks. Hicks to a lesser degree in that IIRC, he only played in around 30% of the defensive snaps. Jones on the other hand was a major defensive snap eater as well as an excellent player. However, I think we don't really lose much in talent with him being replace by Sheard, but it certainly will bring up question about depth at the position.
The Solidest Defense In Many Years

I do NOT think that it is too early to look to the roster on defense. The offense is another story entirely.

DEFENSE (24-25, including STers)

DE (5) - Ninkovich, Sheard, Long, Flowers, Grissom
DT (5) - Brown, Branch, Knighton, Valentine, (Kuhn) (we might keep only four)
LB (4-5) - Collins, Hightower, McClellan, Freeney/Johnson/Humber, KGH
CB (5) - Butler, Jones, Ryan, Coleman, Roberts/Biggers/Jones
S (5) - McCourty, Chung, Harmon, Richards, King

PUP (or another list) - Ebner
PS - LB Roberts

THE LAST THREE ROSTER SPOTS ON DEFENSE - BATTLES AND ISSUES

1) Kuhn will make the 53 if Valentine isn't ready for prime time. Given the likely PUP's and possible suspension on offense, the 25th defensive roster spot is likely to be available to start the season.

2) I give KGH the edge at LB, because of his special team play. Clearly he could be beaten out by one of the others. Freeney, Humber and Rufus Johnson seem to be competing for the 5th LB spot. Johnson would also make it with an injury at DE.

3) Butler and Ryan played well last year, as did Coleman in the slot. We've added Jones. Roberts may be the 1st to come back from a rookie season on IR, or not. UDFA Jones and Biggers are there competing for his roster spot.

The key to the success of this defense is it's positional flexibility and depth. Those are critical factors in this age of injuries and multiple offenses.

Some comments on the comments

1. Last year's defense lost 2 important pieces in Jones and Hicks. Hicks to a lesser degree in that IIRC, he only played in around 30% of the defensive snaps. Jones on the other hand was a major defensive snap eater as well as an excellent player. However, I think we don't really lose much in talent with him being replace by Sheard, but it certainly will bring up questions about depth at the position. That being said, it is reasonable to think that either Long or Flowers should be able give a us a true 3 man rotation at the position. That's if only one of the two pans out.

2. Same goes for the DT position. Hicks is a loss, but Brown, who was good last season, should be better, this year. By the end of the season one could easily make the argument that Brown was the 2nd or 3rd best rookie defensive lineman in the league. He might just end up being one of BB's best draft picks before he is done. I think his potential impact is being overlooked by just about everyone at this point. Knighton and Branch give us an excellent 3 man rotation that should be better against the run than we were last season, even though we lose the explosive play of Easley and Hicks from the position

3. Some one earlier this month someone here made a terrifically insightful observation about the effect of the new rules making the chop block illegal in every instance, thus make elite bull rushers like Branch and Knighton even more valuable. It bears repeating in this thread and keep this in mind when you start to worry about push up the middle.

4. We should remember that our base defense is a 4-2-5, so that should limit fears about LB depth. It helps that you are starting with the best LB duo in the league, who are both in their contract year. So that might mean thousands of questions about 2017 and beyond, but is great news if all you are thinking about right now is 2016. Finding that 3rd rotational guy should be the goal of this TC. McClelan and Freeney are a good start, but no matter how you parse it, it will be a question going into the season.

5. Last season a majority of the defensive questions we had about this team were about the secondary, especially the CB's. Well fortunately almost all of those questions came back positive. We now know that in Butler we have a top 10 CB and arguably better than that. We know that Ryan is a lot better than being a JAG, and a solid #2 guy who was an improvement over the guy he replaced. Dependable is the word I think best describes him. So we not only have very good pair of starters at CB, we have a much better talent pool to develop the 3 guys who will play behind them, then he had going into last season. The same can be said for the safety position. Talented, deep, and for the most part experienced.

The depth and talent we have there will allow Patricia to be as flexible and multiple on defense as the OC is on offense. And it all starts with the DB depth and skill of the LB's.

Now granted I can't go without addressing the elephant in the room regarding the CB's and that is their uniform lack of size. It bothers the hell out of me, but evidently BB is OK with it, so I'm not going to agonize of it.

Overall, like every team in the off season, there are a lot of questions that will have to answered over the course of the 2016 season, but in my mind there are a lot fewer than last year's off season. So I'm comfortable to agree with MG that this looks like this defense has the "potential" to be one of the best in the BB era.
 
Hicks and Jones are no longer there, they were key players in the defense that need to be replaced. We will have to wait and see if there are guys on the roster who can fill those roles. Knighton could be one of the guys, but he wasn't resigned in Washington for a reason and Hicks really got good penetration.

Sheared was dynamic, but he also got pushed around in the running game.
Living in DC area I can say it wasn't because Washington did not want him, or try to get him. They were competitive in their offer and from what I remember it came down to the wire with him choosing to sign with the Patriots at the very end of the process. It could very well be that this is another example of a veteran wanting to play for the ring and knowing New England is the best place for that (iirc Chris Long is an example of that). In any event the reason Pot Roast was not resigned in Washington was not that they didn't want him or try to re-sign him, it was that the Patriots made him an offer that was good enough for him to prefer to play here.
 
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