If there's a DL strategy change, what about the OL?

Fencer · Jun 2, 2016

There are various discussions around the fact that BB has greatly disinvested in the position/role of penetrating DT.

If he doesn't believe in them, what are the implications for the OL?

And by the way -- how does not believing in them gibe with the problems Brady sometimes has against them?

Gumby · Jun 3, 2016

Good point, hasnt been discussed much yet.

I think BB was a year ahead on some of the expected or necessary changes. One of the aspects of the new rules is supposedly that the more rotational big-body DL will engage more with the OL and wear them out quicker. Well, BB has been innovating more the last two years with a fluid or changing OL throughout the season (albeit as much maybe unintentionally due to injuries as intentionally) and during games. Addition of a third TE at times to help chip DL may be another way.

Technique wise, i think they have to engage high more. Which may be more of a Problem for the RB left in to block than the OL.

IllegalContact · Jun 3, 2016

nothing to discuss.......

scar is on it

RobertWeathers · Jun 3, 2016

Fencer said:
There are various discussions around the fact that BB has greatly disinvested in the position/role of penetrating DT.

If he doesn't believe in them, what are the implications for the OL?

And by the way -- how does not believing in them gibe with the problems Brady sometimes has against them?

I don't agree that BB has changed his philosophy with phasing out penetrating DTs. He cut Easley for other reasons. He also took a flyer on Kearse who also has the potential to penetrate the gaps.

jimnance · Jun 3, 2016

Fencer said:
There are various discussions around the fact that BB has greatly disinvested in the position/role of penetrating DT.

If he doesn't believe in them, what are the implications for the OL?

And by the way -- how does not believing in them gibe with the problems Brady sometimes has against them?

I also dont believe BB "doesnt believe in them". Theres a reason no other teams jumped on easley. I think some of its injury-related. As for cjones-sheard is a far better option to sometimes rush inside, since he is also good vs. run while chandler sucked. sheard was also hans down the best passrusher we had last year. only question with him is will he be able to keep his high motor/production with his snaps possibly doubling? mbrown has also occasionaly shown ability to push pocket when asked to do so. grissom has done some interior rushing. and of course, both jamie and high do some. flowers and rufus havent really had a shot yet, and i expect we'll see nore of them. if anything, the pats have more versatility on D this year and plenty of passrushing options, along with improved run defense. Not worried about the ol with scar and both tackles back plus other teams dont have all the big dts pats do.

jimnance · Jun 3, 2016

jimnance said:
I also dont believe BB "doesnt believe in them". Theres a reason no other teams jumped on easley. I think some of its injury-related. As for cjones-sheard is a far better option to sometimes rush inside, since he is also good vs. run while chandler sucked. sheard was also hans down the best passrusher we had last year. only question with him is will he be able to keep his high motor/production with his snaps possibly doubling? mbrown has also occasionaly shown ability to push pocket when asked to do so. grissom has done some interior rushing. and of course, both jamie and high do some. flowers and rufus havent really had a shot yet, and i expect we'll see nore of them. if anything, the pats have more versatility on D this year and plenty of passrushing options, along with improved run defense. Not worried about the ol with scar and both tackles back plus other teams dont have all the big dts pats do.

i left out-the one loss that hurt a little was hicks-as he had size and interior rush. but you cant sign everybody. im sure BB wanted him back. but malcolm brown might very well be capable of picking up that slack. lets see how much of a jump he makes this year. im confident his floor is "very solid"-but i want to see if he can stretch a little further into a pro-bowl caliber dt.

FreeTedWilliams · Jun 3, 2016

We keep hearing that Thuney is best suited to be a center, so I say the Pats use a unique 3 center o-line with Thuney, Stork, and Andrews, with Vollmer and Solder at the tackles. The line shifts left, right , or doesn't shift just prior to the snap, automatic unbalanced line with Gronk and Bennett playing TE to each side.

I can see Harbaugh's tears swelling up now......

Fencer · Jun 3, 2016

robertweathers said:
I don't agree that BB has changed his philosophy with phasing out penetrating DTs. He cut Easley for other reasons. He also took a flyer on Kearse who also has the potential to penetrate the gaps.

Well, Easley is gone for whatever reasons. Chris Jones is gone for whatever reasons. Hicks is gone for obviously financial reasons. BB hasn't replaced the pass rushing side of that talent with anything remotely equal.

Chandler Jones is the DE I recall most often lining up inside in a NASCARish way, but the replacement(s) for that may indeed be on the roster now.

RobertWeathers · Jun 3, 2016

Fencer said:
Well, Easley is gone for whatever reasons. Chris Jones is gone for whatever reasons. Hicks is gone for obviously financial reasons. BB hasn't replaced the pass rushing side of that talent with anything remotely equal.

Chandler Jones is the DE I recall most often lining up inside in a NASCARish way, but the replacement(s) for that may indeed be on the roster now.

Chris Jones was financial and was hurt all year. I view Kearse as a Jones replacement.

Grissom or Sheard will play NASCAR role.

Fencer · Jun 3, 2016

robertweathers said:
Chris Jones was financial and was hurt all year. I view Kearse as a Jones replacement.

That leaves us without replacement for the penetration skills of Easley/Hicks. So indeed it's a change in the skill balance of the roster.

One answer might be that BB is going either full fatty or NASCAR in various situations, and skipping the middle option of a penetration-oriented DT. If so, the reason might be nothing more than supply/demand for guys with particular skillsets.

But other answers are possible instead.

Ivan · Jun 3, 2016

robertweathers said:
I don't agree that BB has changed his philosophy with phasing out penetrating DTs. He cut Easley for other reasons. He also took a flyer on Kearse who also has the potential to penetrate the gaps.

Yep. I don't think we know whether this is a philosophical shift or simply a matter of necessity for to the availability of penetrating lineman. Much like Belichick changing from 4-3 this could be more about where the talent is, and in this case the better talent pool was for the really big defensive tackles and there was a shortage of quality penetrating interior linemen.

RobertWeathers · Jun 3, 2016

Fencer said:
That leaves us without replacement for the penetration skills of Easley/Hicks. So indeed it's a change in the skill balance of the roster.

I agree that missing is a Jarvis Green, Mike Wright, Chris Jones, Eaasley-type talent missing from the unit but with the addition of Kearse I believe that they are attempting to fill that role with him as opposed to there a philosophical shift in having more fatties.

With that said he could just as easily get cut.

Fencer said:
One answer might be that BB is going either full fatty or NASCAR in various situations, and skipping the middle option of a penetration-oriented DT. If so, the reason might be nothing more than supply/demand for guys with particular skillsets.

But other answers are possible instead.

I think NASCAR is part of the package. Not sure if they will use it more in place of that pass-rushing DT.

tasmlab · Jun 3, 2016

FreeTedWilliams said:
We keep hearing that Thuney is best suited to be a center, so I say the Pats use a unique 3 center o-line with Thuney, Stork, and Andrews, with Vollmer and Solder at the tackles. The line shifts left, right , or doesn't shift just prior to the snap, automatic unbalanced line with Gronk and Bennett playing TE to each side.

I can see Harbaugh's tears swelling up now......

Forgive my stupid question: does the ball have to be snapped from the guy in the middle of the line? Or could they at the last minute all take a step to the left and have another guy snap it?

RobertWeathers · Jun 3, 2016

tasmlab said:
Forgive my stupid question: does the ball have to be snapped from the guy in the middle of the line? Or could they at the last minute all take a step to the left and have another guy snap it?

Every hear of the old fumble-rooski play?

Needs to be snapped.

Gumby · Jun 3, 2016

OP posts that a lot of discussions about DL took place and he poses an OL question, promptly gets 8 of 11 responses talking about . . . the DL. Ironic?

FreeTedWilliams · Jun 3, 2016

tasmlab said:
Forgive my stupid question: does the ball have to be snapped from the guy in the middle of the line? Or could they at the last minute all take a step to the left and have another guy snap it?

Nope, anyone on the offensive line can snap it, you just have to have 7 guys on the line and the last two guys on each side is eligible and everyone else is ineligible.

So yes, they can just shift and then snap the ball.

n6249c · Jun 4, 2016

Gumby said:
OP posts that a lot of discussions about DL took place and he poses an OL question, promptly gets 8 of 11 responses talking about . . . the DL. Ironic?

I was thinking the same. Icing on the cake is that the three OL posts are about playing three centers and shifting into an unbalanced line. Really useful responses to the OP. NOT!

jah · Jun 4, 2016

n6249c said:
I was thinking the same. Icing on the cake is that the three OL posts are about playing three centers and shifting into an unbalanced line. Really useful responses to the OP. NOT!

I keep seeing new replies to this thread, returning in hopes it's on topic, and always end up disappointed.

IcyPatriot · Jun 4, 2016

The new chop block rule is going to impede the cheating teams who like to do it while zone blocking on running plays ... as for our team as long as Brady is calling the signals I doubt there are any scheme changes ... pretty much bet on execution changes though ... welcome back Dante.

n6249c · Jun 5, 2016

IcyPatriot said:
The new chop block rule is going to impede the cheating teams who like to do it while zone blocking on running plays ... as for our team as long as Brady is calling the signals I doubt there are any scheme changes ... pretty much bet on execution changes though ... welcome back Dante.

Good point. Under Googe even if they tried to use a chop block it's likely the OL didn't get it right. Having Scar back will help, and he can just teach to the present rules so it's not likely to be a major issue for our line.

One thing I was thinking about this earlier is that because they'll want to work on pass protection the big bodies on the DL will probably see a lot of work during camp and practice during the season on pass rushing, which may help improve the performance in that area. I've always thought one of the advantages a top team has is that they are always practicing against good talent, helps both sides of the line get even better. Hope we see that again this year!

If there's a DL strategy change, what about the OL?

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