OT: Cavs vs. Warriors (Who Wins the NBA Finals?)

letekro said:

Lebron can guard all 5 positions. Steph can guard 0 positions. That is an enormous factor in the MVP analysis that is often overlooked. In fact, it is exactly half of the equation.

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More rhetoric that's incorrect.

LeBron can't guard quick 1s or 2s..

LeBron is also the most overrated on ball defender. He's not very good.


Steph isn't a good defender but he's improving and is 10 times more difficult to guard that LeBron

Nehalem said:

If Brady just hits his average performance for the 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2015 Pats elimination games how many more Super Bowl titles do the Patriots have?

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If Brady has an average 4th quarter against Seattle, they get blown out. We can play this game all night.

If LeBron is supposedly the greatest of all time, he needs to do more when his team needs him. Sorry, that's reality. No love and no Kyrie? Score 50. He could. He's capable of that.

letekro said:

Utter nonsense. I guess games 6 and 7 of that series were not big games:

Game 6: 11-26 32 pts 10 reb 11 ast 3 steals

Game 7: 12-23 37 pts 12 reb 4 ast 2 steals


Oh, forgot to mention, add to the above shutting down the otherwise unguardable Tony Parker when they really needed it.

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Tony Parker was and is very guard-able.

letekro said:

Lebron can guard all 5 positions. Steph can guard 0 positions. That is an enormous factor in the MVP analysis that is often overlooked. In fact, it is exactly half of the equation.

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Nonsense. He can guard the SFs and some of the PFs. Hes not quick enough to guard smaller SGs or PGs and offensive centers kill him.

AvocadoIceCream said:

If Brady has an average 4th quarter against Seattle, they get blown out. We can play this game all night.

If LeBron is supposedly the greatest of all time, he needs to do more when his team needs him. Sorry, that's reality. No love and no Kyrie? Score 50. He could. He's capable of that.

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Bingo.

Who is saying LeBron is GoAT? Hes not even in the top 15.

AvocadoIceCream said:

If Brady has an average 4th quarter against Seattle, they get blown out. We can play this game all night.

If LeBron is supposedly the greatest of all time, he needs to do more when his team needs him. Sorry, that's reality. No love and no Kyrie? Score 50. He could. He's capable of that.

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I am honestly wondering if you have ever watched the sport of basketball in your life.



Any human being that looks at the above stats and says "He needs to do more" needs drug tested.

Assists and rebounds aren't relevant.

Score more.

Get off his D, fanboy. He's no Jordan.

Steph actually is a good defender. It's to GS advantage to keep him fresh and free of fouls, but if you look at on ball defense, he's rated pretty highly with the statistics.

GS in 5

robertweathers said:

Nonsense. He can guard the SFs and some of the PFs. Hes not quick enough to guard smaller SGs or PGs and offensive centers kill him.

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Did you miss the 2013 finals when he guarded Tony Parker on virtually every big possession, who is 6' 2" in high heels and in his prime was probably the quickest point in the game?

Yes, he will get abused by a skilled center, but how many of those are there in the NBA?

TXPat said:

Steph actually is a good defender. It's to GS advantage to keep him fresh and free of fouls, but if you look at on ball defense, he's rated pretty highly with the statistics.

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It's Lebron's team's advantage to keep him fresh and free of fouls, but nevertheless, when the chips are down, he is sicced on the opposing team's best player. Curry tries hard, but he is small and not particularly athletic, so his effectiveness is limited.

AvocadoIceCream said:

Assists and rebounds aren't relevant.

Score more.

Get off his D, fanboy. He's no Jordan.

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letekro said:

Did you miss the 2013 finals when he guarded Tony Parker on virtually every big possession, who is 6' 2" in high heels and in his prime was probably the quickest point in the game?

Yes, he will get abused by a skilled center, but how many of those are there in the NBA?

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No. I did not miss it but it was a while ago..

I don't think Parker is the player he once was but he was good on him. You can also pull out some highlights with Parker beating him.

AvocadoIceCream said:

Assists and rebounds aren't relevant.

Score more.

Get off his D, fanboy. He's no Jordan.

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He put up 32+ in 5/6 games, with a multitude of double doubles/triple doubles spread throughout the series. Give me a break.

You may not like him and that's understandable, but your argument is flawed to say the least. It's basically ridiculous.

supafly said:

He put up 32+ in 5/6 games, with a multitude of triple doubles spread throughout the series. Give me a break.

You may not like him and that's understandable, but your argument is flawed to say the least. It's basically ridiculous.

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I can stand LeBron but for the most part there is no question he has come up big more often than not.

robertweathers said:

No. I did not miss it but it was a while ago..

I don't think Parker is the player he once was but he was good on him. You can also pull out some highlights with Parker beating him.

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Sure, Parker got his. but when they needed stops, the Heat picked James to cover him over all the guards on their roster. I'm not saying he is a lock-down defender at every position, but he can guard pretty much everybody in the league without getting embarrassed (or at least he could when he was at his absolute prime). That provides tremendous value to his team. The one exception, as you note, is tall, skilled centers will dominate him, but there just aren't many of those guys.

AvocadoIceCream said:

Get off his D, fanboy. He's no Jordan.

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And there it is in a nutshell. Falling short of Jordan seems to be a valid criticism for LeBron but not for any other player in the history of the league. This is the impossible standard I spoke of earlier.

WArriors

letekro said:

Sure, Parker got his. but when they needed stops, the Heat picked James to cover him over all the guards on their roster.

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I think you are overstating the 'stops" on Parker. #1 he was injured. #2 Part of the reason why LeBron need to D up on Parke is that between DWade and Chalmers their on the ball defense at G was brutal. If you watch him, he was not in his shirt but rather he played off him a couple feet. What he did do was because of his quickness and length, widen the passing lanes. This forced guys like Leonard, Ginobli, etc to catch at say 22 ft as opposed to 18.

letekro said:

I'm not saying he is a lock-down defender at every position,

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letekro said:

but he can guard pretty much everybody in the league without getting embarrassed (or at least he could when he was at his absolute prime). That provides tremendous value to his team. The one exception, as you note, is tall, skilled centers will dominate him, but there just aren't many of those guys.

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If you are 6-8 ish will good speed, quickness, fundamentals, can jump and understand the scheme you can guard anyone for a reasonable amount of time until the matchup is exploited. LeBron certainly falls in that category but to what you just said he is nowhere in the neighborhood of guys like Rodman or Metta World...

He's not even Bird

letekro said:

And there it is in a nutshell. Falling short of Jordan seems to be a valid criticism for LeBron but not for any other player in the history of the league. This is the impossible standard I spoke of earlier.

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He's won 2 titles with 2 stars next to him.

He's been to the finals 1 time without a big 3....

His teams the last 6 years have been so far superior than any other team in the east it's not funny.

If you want to put him in GOAT company, you can't lose twice as many times in the finals as you win. Period