Reiss: Malcolm Butler plans to push for an adjustment to his contract

IllegalContact said:

Understood .... But my primary point is that Hightower and Collins are more important players to the pats than butler

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Yes, I agree with that. I think your point about trading Butler is interesting. His trade value is likely pretty high right now.

JarOfMayo51 said:

No way they agree to be paid as a #2 CB when he is clearly a #1 and a very good #1. If that ends up being their stance on the matter, we'll unfortunately have to watch a great player like Butler leave via FA

I'd love him if he did, but I just can't fathom them agreeing to that when he's established himself as a top corner.. Look what Norman just got paid after his year last year, he hasn't been a consistently good player for a long period of time either

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Butler can get his free agent payday he will just have to wait until 2019. They aren't going to give him 15 million a year until they actually have to.

What I would do if pulling numbers out of my ass (as genius as it is) is accepted.

4 year contract
4m per year guaranteed plus 2 million realistic incentives plus another 4m in elite number incentives

As a wannabe-GM I love incentives. I'm not sure why they aren't utilized more. I'm guessing players would rather have the guaranteed money. My thinking is that incentives should be win/win for both the team and the player.

Butler is going to play for his existing contract this year..... Case closed

Tuck said:

Yes, I agree with that. I think your point about trading Butler is interesting. His trade value is likely pretty high right now.

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And they've brought in some interesting talent at corner

I'm not saying trade him, but I don't see the pats ever using the franchise tag on him, so after this year, he could be turned into another resource

Ivan said:

Butler can get his free agent payday he will just have to wait until 2019. They aren't going to give him 15 million a year until they actually have to.

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Let's the market for him as an UFA in 2017 would be $15M. OF COURSE, no one would offer him market. Surely SOMEONE will offer a 1st and $6M or $7M for 2017 and more for the rest of the contract, which the patriots would likely match.

In any case, Butler has little incentive to risk injury until he is forced to show up per the CBA.

robertweathers said:

They are responsible for operation costs and to run the franchise. That is business risk. I'm not arguing the degree of the risk.

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To repeat, because you're ignoring the plain truth:

Barring a full economic collapse, there is no financial risk for owners in Football.

Eh, that's fair, can't really hold it against the guy. He's earned a raise and then some. I would be psyched if it came in the form of a long-term extension.

zimmy said:

Butler doesn't have the same leverage as Hightower and Collins. We have him under contract for the next two years for salaries of $650k and then potentially around $3m with the first round tender.

I'm all for giving him a new long term contract but it has to take into account this reality. If he wants long term security he needs to take a discount. A 5 year $35-40m type deal seems to do that. Gives him a big pay day for a undrafted free agent but also takes into account the cheaper salaries of the next two years.

Also, by giving in to his demands if he stays away, what signal does that send to Hightower and Collins who no doubt want a new contract too?

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This. It actually might be in the Patriots best interests to approach it this way. The size of player deals is only getting bigger with each offseason, and with key players coming up for new deals, signing a deal with Butler now might help the Patriots keep the trio together.

1) This is a media story. Take it with about 200 grains of salt
2) Butler has a single year of CB1 level play (including some bumps along the way as he learned the ropes)
3) His contract is largely set in stone. Patriots will not do anything with it without a tangible discount
4) One more year of top tier CB play (something that is absolutely not certain to be the case) and his value is unquestionably huge.

Assuming the MB of 2016 and beyond will be CB1 top tier (and progressively getting better), a below market long term contract for him right now is possibly a bad deal except for the 'money now is better than money tomorrow'(which it might be). As I estimate it (numbers are ??) in 2016 he'll get a 1m, 2017 he'll get approx 4 million, and in 2018 approx 15 million (franchise tag for 2018) or a BFD long term deal. In 2019 (or if he is not tagged for 2018) he is lined for the motherload deal.
Is negotiating from a shaky contract position to get a discounted LTD better than the scenario above?? Maybe not...

Deus Irae said:

To repeat, because you're ignoring the plain truth:

Barring a full economic collapse, there is no financial risk for owners in Football.

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Ok that is risk.

Ivan said:

The 12 million was salary over the, life of the contract, he would get 20 guaranteed. 4/32/20 is a fair deal for both sides. Butler gets a big payday up front and only has one more year in the deal than they already control him for.

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They can pay him this year + next 2 years 19m dollars MAXIMUM. So what will be the benefict for the team to give him such a huge contract? 1 more year?

They are not a charity they will pay him but whine about that wont chance the fact that he has no leverage...

13m is top dollar for a CB.

I think they will reach a deal not one to benefict on partie only. They can give him more money with a higher m/per year but with more years. 4 years is the ideal for Butler not the Patriots.

Ivan said:

Butler can get his free agent payday he will just have to wait until 2019. They aren't going to give him 15 million a year until they actually have to.

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So exacly would you risk to play 3 more NFL years and seek for 13.5m per/ 4 years ( he will be 29 they wont pay him 15m) or just right now sign a deal for 9.5m per/ 6 years?

I haven't seen this being talked about, so...

Butler is already 26 years old. I don't think he'll accept a 4 year contract with a below avg salary for CB1. After that is done, he would be in his 30 and we all know how cruel the NFL can be for those guys (granted, CBs can stay at high level a bit longer)

Butler is the most underpaid player in the NFL. Quality, upstanding CBs like Butler are extremely hard to find; they are the rarest commodity in the NFL and they get a premium as FAs. I don't blame him for wanting a new contract.

patsbrasilpatriotas said:

So exacly would you risk to play 3 more NFL years and seek for 13.5m per/ 4 years ( he will be 29 they wont pay him 15m) or just right now sign a deal for 9.5m per/ 6 years?

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I really don't know what you are talking about.

The contract I suggested was 8 million a year annual value for the next 4 years with 20 guaranteed. I have no idea where you are getting 7 and 8 years at?

Once again: 4 years/32 million/ 20 guaranteed, which means he would get 20 up front with a 3 million salary each year. They can break that up in a variety of ways but those are the basics. As it stands Butler would make $600,000, this season, 3 million in 2017 of they give him a first round tag, and around 16 million if they franchise him in 2018. So the tags would add up to around 20 million total and lock him up through 2018, he would then become a free agent in 2019. The Patriots would be doing him a favor by guaranteeing the money now and they would add on one year to the contract and 12 million in salary over those four years to keep him through 2019 in return. So Butler would make 32 million over the next four years instead of 20 over the next three. Imo that is a fair deal for both sides given the amount of control the Patriots have and the quality of player Butler is.

Butler can hold out all need BC wants but it won't do him any good at all, Belichick n is not going to suddenly start paying him 15 million a year simply because Butler demands it, and sitting won't make him a better player. Agreeing on a good deal for both sides would be best for everyone.

Ivan said:

I really don't know what you are talking about.

The contract I suggested was 8 million a year annual value for the next 4 years with 20 guaranteed. I have no idea where you are getting 7 and 8 years at?

Once again: 4 years/32 million/ 20 guaranteed, which means he would get 20 up front with a 3 million salary each year. They can break that up in a variety of ways but those are the basics. As it stands Butler would make $600,000, this season, 3 million in 2017 of they give him a first round tag, and around 16 million if they franchise him in 2018. So the tags would add up to around 20 million total and lock him up through 2018, he would then become a free agent in 2019. The Patriots would be doing him a favor by guaranteeing the money now and they would add on one year to the contract and 12 million in salary over those four years to keep him through 2019 in return. So Butler would make 32 million over the next four years instead of 20 over the next three. Imo that is a fair deal for both sides given the amount of control the Patriots have and the quality of player Butler is.

Butler can hold out all need BC wants but it won't do him any good at all, Belichick n is not going to suddenly start paying him 15 million a year simply because Butler demands it, and sitting won't make him a better player. Agreeing on a good deal for both sides would be best for everyone.

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I undertsand that 4/32 means 8 per year thank you sir. 8/8/8/8 = 0.6k/3.65/16/12 with the same gtd money. Do we agree on that sir?

If they tag him 2x Butler he will get his 20m gtd REGARDELESS. Do we agree on that?

So what is the incentive for Butler to sign such a proposal today? 16m dollars in gtd money with 28 years old ( We all know they will tender him next year). So, do we agree that the incentive is almost non-existent for the player? Josh Norman just got 15m per with a lower cap and the same age Butler will be. He knows he can get more than 16m overt the next 2 years and a larger deal in a bigger cap space situation.

If you will add an extra year to the player's contract by paying the price of an elite player NOW what would be the benefit the team ?

The offer for the player is almost the same as he would be entitled if he decided not to deal with the team, and the team would add a year of elite athlete money and allow the player to reached free agency in his prime.

What I mean is that to be advantageous to both parties, the Patriots should make a larger proposal than 4 years ( 6 years at least), with a reduced annual cost compared with the top CB (more years would be a way to protect both sides and the reduced value would be a players discount for any injury or something more serious - Gronks case).

Do you envision Solder (10.4m per) getting top dollar today ( his agent believed he was the best LT in the league), after his season last year? Sometimes is better not to gamble. He is better than C Glenn (12m per) and he is making a little bit less money. But i think that if he did not sign his extension when he did the difference would be even bigger.

Jackson 2 said:

Malcolm needs to tread carefully here, in my opinion. With Bill it's all business. If Malcolm decides he's going to publicly turn this into a pissing contest, Bill might well ship him. And god knows where. If a team like the Browns gets goo goo eyes for Malocolm and are willing to pay up big time, he could be history. I hope not, but I've seen this act before with BB.

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Why would Malcom Butler have to thread carefully based on his very fortunate circumstances ie...youth and talent??? Dude is not even in the prime of his career yet I think the ball is in his court. Knowing your next play could be your last one, once you are proven its time to get PAID!

FredFromDartmouth said:

Butler is the most underpaid player in the NFL. Quality, upstanding CBs like Butler are extremely hard to find; they are the rarest commodity in the NFL and they get a premium as FAs. I don't blame him for wanting a new contract.

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Richard Sherman got his deal after his 3rd year...which included 2 seasons as All-Pro and 20 INTs

PatsFan2 said:

Why would Malcom Butler have the thread carefully based in his very for fortunate circumstances ie...youth and talent??? Dude is not even in the prime of his career yet I think the ball is in his court. Knowing the next play could be your last one, once you are proven its time to get PAID!

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I think the "tread carefully" comment was in reference to the fact that he could end up getting traded if he pushes his contract situation.

Many in this thread have debated whether he's elite or a notch below. I believe most league exec's would agree he's pretty damn good, still has upside and is under contract for pocket change for two more seasons with an option to franchise him for a third.

His trade value even goes beyond his skill level and his cap friendly contract. As a RFA next year he could end up netting you a first if he is signed away by another team so giving a first for him now in trade would seem like a steal.

Given all that I think he could net the pats a first + a mid round pick if he were traded today.