with the 3rd pick in the NBA Draft...

rochrist said:

Supposedly, the Lakers are considering taking Bender at 2.
(BTW, I don't think Ingram is going to be doing much for at least a year. That kid is so skinny he's lucky he doesn't float away!)

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good i hope they do. bender is just as skinny . its a weak draft. thankfully we have the nets 1st rd picks the next two years.

captain insano said:

good i hope they do. bender is just as skinny . its a weak draft. thankfully we have the nets 1st rd picks the next two years.

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Ainge should be arrested for grand theft in that trade. Holy **** did the Celtics smoke them.

KontradictioN said:

Ainge should be arrested for grand theft in that trade. Holy **** did the Celtics smoke them.

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to be accurate the celtics have the right to swap 1st rd picks next year. in 2018 they own the nets 1st rd pick outright.

trade this years #3 to Philly for 2017 1st rounder and 2018 1st rounder. No way Philly improves and the draft in those two years will be better.

If Philly trades Okafor/Noel for Dunn and drafts Simmons 1 the sure will improve, and fast.

rochrist said:

If Philly trades Okafor/Noel for Dunn and drafts Simmons 1 the sure will improve, and fast.

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You dont think Simmons and Dunn would bring them a vast improvement?

rochrist said:

If Philly trades Okafor/Noel for Dunn and drafts Simmons 1 the sure will improve, and fast.

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They can't help but improve, but I think the Cs will improve too, if that trade is made.

rochrist said:

You dont think Simmons and Dunn would bring them a vast improvement?

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I just don't get all the Dunn love. For a player featured so prominently in the Friar offense, his stats are less than remarkable. I will go so far as say "regressed" this year. His year over year stats showed zero improvement. His shooting is a big problem and he wilted against the best Big East teams. Of the top 10 draft prospects, eight are 18-20 years old with bodies yet to reach NBA-like maturity. Only Dunn and Heidl are 22….and of these two, only Heidl showed significant improvement from last year to this year. Dunn has the body but his game didn't progress with it. I see this as a red flag. Too many air balls for my taste

If the Celtics keep the 3rd pick, they should take Dragan Bender. Sure there's bust potential there, but the kid has the tools and skills to be an allstar in the league. The more I study the players in this draft, the more locked into Bender at #3 I become. The other players in the top 5-7 are all talented too, but they are also flawed as well. Jaylen Brown is a great athlete who can't shoot. Jamal Murray is a good shooter but isn't a good athlete. Buddy Heild is a great shooter who can't defend and might struggle to get his shot off. Dunn can't shoot, and isn't a fit. While they all have certain gifts, I'd rather roll the dice with Bender. The Celtics don't need another good complementary player. They need an allstar type talent. Outside of the top 2, Bender is the player with the highest ceiling and potential. I roll the dice with him at #3. He's 7'1, has a long wingspan, can guard all 3 front court positions, can shoot, drive and pass. He'll need to add weight and grow as a player (he's only 18), but the ceiling is there. In Stevens' system he's a great fit too.

Personally I think the C's will look to move the pick for Okafor. It just makes too much sense for both teams. Some say #3 won't be enough. That it will take more than just the pick. I've also read it might be something like Smart and #16 or 23. Not sure about that though. It takes two to tango, so a deal is no guarantee.

Someone mentioned Embiid earlier. Why keep him instead of Okafor. I think the reason is, in part, that Embiid has less value right now. He's burned through 2 seasons of his rookie deal, hasn't played a game, has significant injuries, and questionable dedication. No team is giving up a top 5 pick for Embiid imo. Probably not a top 10 either.

One thing I don't want the Celtics to do, is make a move, or draft a player, for an immediate result at the expense of a smarter move that helps them long term. For example, if they think Bender is indeed the BPA at #3, but is a 2 year project, they need to take him. Don't take a player you feel won't be as good, but might "help" sooner. The goal is to win championships, or at least contend for one. In the NBA you do that with the best players.

Hope they dont go for Okafor. The more I think about it, the more I think he's the2 complete antithesis of what Stevens wants in a big.

rochrist said:

Hope they dont go for Okafor. The more I think about it, the more I think he's the2 complete antithesis of what Stevens wants in a big.

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I've seen people say that. I guess the argument could be made that you win with talent in the NBA, and if you think Okafor is more talented than any player at #3, then you do the deal. Okafor could always be used to acquire a bigger piece like Boogie Cousins. He might not be a fit with respect to the style of big Stevens wants, but he does fill a huge need in the low post. They have nothing down low really.

One thing I wonder is whether or not the C's will go for the scoring guard/wing at #3 (maybe trade down a few spots even), and then take the project/talented big at #16. There are a number of talented bigs that could be there. Sabonis, Skal, Jones, Ellenson, etc. One or more of the big bodies should slide to 16. Lots of possibilities for the Celtics. We know they will be making trades cuz there is no way they can use all 8 of their draft picks.

Real World said:

Personally I think the C's will look to move the pick for Okafor. It just makes too much sense for both teams. Some say #3 won't be enough. That it will take more than just the pick. I've also read it might be something like Smart and #16 or 23. Not sure about that though. It takes two to tango, so a deal is no guarantee.

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If the Philly reports are any way near accurate, Collangelo is now trying to build a "team" verses a collection of assets and the Celtics #3 could get Philly the first choice in guards (shooting or point) to compliment Simmons/Embiid. Who else but the C's #3 can guarantee Philly gets their guy. At this point in Philly's rebuild, winning the deal is less important than securing their future back court star. Ainge shouldn't have to give away too much …maybe 4 #2's LMAO.
I like Okafor and believe he fills the C's biggest need. I also think Okafor will thrive as a C.

Real World said:

I've seen people say that. I guess the argument could be made that you win with talent in the NBA, and if you think Okafor is more talented than any player at #3, then you do the deal. Okafor could always be used to acquire a bigger piece like Boogie Cousins. He might not be a fit with respect to the style of big Stevens wants, but he does fill a huge need in the low post. They have nothing down low really.

One thing I wonder is whether or not the C's will go for the scoring guard/wing at #3 (maybe trade down a few spots even), and then take the project/talented big at #16. There are a number of talented bigs that could be there. Sabonis, Skal, Jones, Ellenson, etc. One or more of the big bodies should slide to 16. Lots of possibilities for the Celtics. We know they will be making trades cuz there is no way they can use all 8 of their draft picks.

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Considering that Philly's in-game plan the past few years has been to lose games at all costs, I'm not going to pigeon hole Okafor as a bad fit for the C's. Low expectations create bad habits. Stevens seems like a coach who can refocus the big boy. With legit scoring guards in Thomas and Bradley, I think Okafor will have space to operate and be a better player than he's shown as a member of the Philly Tankapalooza.
Regarding the likely that a #16 will help the C's this year, I refer you to the accomplishments of the C's mid #1's taken last draft.

borg said:

Considering that Philly's in-game plan the past few years has been to lose games at all costs, I'm not going to pigeon hole Okafor as a bad fit for the C's. Low expectations create bad habits. Stevens seems like a coach who can refocus the big boy. With legit scoring guards in Thomas and Bradley, I think Okafor will have space to operate and be a better player than he's shown as a member of the Philly Tankapalooza.
Regarding the likely that a #16 will help the C's this year, I refer you to the accomplishments of the C's mid #1's taken last draft.

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It's not so much the pick at 16 helping this year. It's the quality of the player that will be available. I think Al Jefferson was the 15th'ish pick, and this draft is actually deep into that range for projectable talent. Denzel Valentine, Korkmuz, Skal, Sabonis, Ellenson, Deyonta Davis, etc. One or more talented players will be there at 16.

Where do you guys see Thon Maker going? Is he hype or the real deal?

Real World said:

It's not so much the pick at 16 helping this year. It's the quality of the player that will be available. I think Al Jefferson was the 15th'ish pick, and this draft is actually deep into that range for projectable talent. Denzel Valentine, Korkmuz, Skal, Sabonis, Ellenson, Deyonta Davis, etc. One or more talented players will be there at 16.

Where do you guys see Thon Maker going? Is he hype or the real deal?

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He's incredibly raw. People talk about Bender being hard to evaluate, Maker played against HS kids. He seems pretty gifted physically, but I cant see him higher than 23, more likely if they take him it would be at the top of the second.

Real World said:

It's not so much the pick at 16 helping this year. It's the quality of the player that will be available. I think Al Jefferson was the 15th'ish pick, and this draft is actually deep into that range for projectable talent. Denzel Valentine, Korkmuz, Skal, Sabonis, Ellenson, Deyonta Davis, etc. One or more talented players will be there at 16.

Where do you guys see Thon Maker going? Is he hype or the real deal?

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First off…love the signature pic.

Regarding Thon Maker…..I shake my head at his path of choice. Prep HS ball in Canada? And then the NBA draft? So incredibly shortsighted.

From a C's perspective, there is no doubt in my mind Ainge will have an incredibly difficult time unloading many of his 8 draft picks because the #2's are near worthless as sweeteners to move up in round 1. So…with 5 picks in the 2nd, Ainge is likely to be shopping in the European market looking to gain control of assets that plan to stay in Europe for one or more years building a farm system on the continent that might bear fruit years down the road.

Back to Maker…..maybe the Celtics 3rd #1…..maybe…..but this guy is a stash and develop guy who will not benefit from little practice opportunities tucked on the end of an NBA bench. You can't teach height and that's an area of need for the C's so stockpiling projects seems reasonable……..early 2nd rounder would seem to offer value…..and then ship him off for fattening.

Here's a thought…..Considering how many assets the Celtics own/control over the next few years, Wyc should purchase a European team and funnel his excess Boston assets to his Euro team and let them compete together. And if NBA rules stand in the way of such a move……have the players put on disguises (Bobby V style)

borg said:

First off…love the signature pic.

Regarding Thon Maker…..I shake my head at his path of choice. Prep HS ball in Canada? And then the NBA draft? So incredibly shortsighted.

From a C's perspective, there is no doubt in my mind Ainge will have an incredibly difficult time unloading many of his 8 draft picks because the #2's are near worthless as sweeteners to move up in round 1. So…with 5 picks in the 2nd, Ainge is likely to be shopping in the European market looking to gain control of assets that plan to stay in Europe for one or more years building a farm system on the continent that might bear fruit years down the road.

Back to Maker…..maybe the Celtics 3rd #1…..maybe…..but this guy is a stash and develop guy who will not benefit from little practice opportunities tucked on the end of an NBA bench. You can't teach height and that's an area of need for the C's so stockpiling projects seems reasonable……..early 2nd rounder would seem to offer value…..and then ship him off for fattening.

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Thanks on the sig.

I think teams are always interested in getting an extra pick. Something simple like trading this years #45 or #58 for a conditional 2nd (or two) in 2018 or 2019, etc. is always doable. I know the Knicks are desperately trying to buy/acquire a pick in this draft, since they don't have one. Other teams as well, like the Nets, are looking to do the same. I think they can move them, but that the return will basically be a can kick type deferral to another draft down the road. That's fine by me, cuz you can't draft 8 players in a single year, and if they trade #45 for a 2nd in 2019 and it ends up being the 52nd pick that year, so be it. At least you retain some asset value that way. Using 8 picks is just not happening. If it is a matter of selling the pick for cash, then as a fan I'd much rather they use it on a draft and stash player.

My guess is that Maker's camp figures the intrique surrounding who he is, or what he could be, is the better gamble than going to college for a year and being a dud. He will get drafted, and it will likely be somewhere from 15 to 45. The 1st round would net him a guaranteed deal, and even the 2nd should too. Jordan Mickey, the Celtics early 2nd rounder from last year, signed a 4 years $5 million deal I believe. I think Makers camp probably weighed the risk reward and feels his draft stock might never be higher. Personally, without having read too much into his recent workouts, I think someone is going to take a gamble on him in the late 1st. There are a few teams with multiple picks in the 1st, and if his workouts are at all promising, they might opt to draft him and develop him in the NBADL. Worst case he goes in that 31-40 range I think. With all the picks the C's have, I think he makes sense with a roll of the dice inside that 23-45 range where the C's have what, 4 picks I think?

One thing about this draft is that while it isn't top heavy with elite talent, it is very deep through the 1st round. There's a lot of upside talent to be had. I think that's a result of the 1 and done system. Lots of 19 and 20 year olds play a year in college, or overseas, and then announce. It makes for a lot of raw, unknown commodities. Some will eventually become good players, some others will look like James Young. What these players also do, it push the vets a little further down the board. Guys like Denzel Valentine might get overlooked because some teams salivate over the raw upside of a Deyonta Davis or Skal.

rochrist said:

Hope they dont go for Okafor. The more I think about it, the more I think he's the2 complete antithesis of what Stevens wants in a big.

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What if Philly offers Nerlens Noel for #3?

Just curious, does anyone know the betting odds on the australian falling to 3rd?

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captain stone said:

What if Philly offers Nerlens Noel for #3?

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Reports have Philly talking with Atlanta about a Noel for Teague swap.
Lots of different ways to read into such a transaction:
Okafor off the table?
Atlanta preparing for Horford departure?
Personally, I think Okafor could benefit from the presence of a true PG and a core of Teague/Simmons/Okafor with Embiid on the verge…that's pretty sweet. And since Embiid is a ?, Okafor should be retained at this time…IMO.
Report: Hawks, Sixers discussing trade involving Jeff Teague, Nerlens Noel

And if Okafor is staying put, and Horford is indeed exiting Atlanta……is Horford a good fit for the Celtics ? And is he worth max money? IMO….No and NO. The C's need a battler that wins in the paint and Horford is not that guy. After witnessing his disappearing act in the playoffs, I can't imagine this is a guy that Ainge wants to build around. Jump shooting big men are created because they flounder in the paint. If everyone is launching 3's, who will attempt rebounding? I still like Okafor…but this pipe dream now seems less likely….unless Colangelo is going for a complete remake this offseason.