Wes Welker: Is He Canton Bound

He has the numbers but not the cache.

If he had two Lombardis.....whole different discussion.

5 straight Pro Bowls
2X First-Team All-Pro
Outstanding numbers for his 6 years as Patriot
Good numbers for his 1st year as a Bronco (10 TDs)
Good playoff numbers (13 games, with totals that would be a decent/not great 16-game regular season performance)
#20 in career receptions
#47 in career receiving yards
#17 in career all-purpose yards

It wouldn't be a travesty if he got in, but I don't think he will and I don't think he should.

As the performance of Troy Brown before him and Edelman since WW was essentially a creation of Brady and the Pats offense. He belongs in neither HOF.

DaBruinz said:

Welker averaged 112 receptions, 1243 yards, and 6 TDs during his 6 years with the Pats.

Michael Irvin averaged 82 receptions, 1286.5 yards, and 6.25 over the last 8 years of his career..
Marvin Harrison averaged 103.25 receptions, 1403 yards and 12.625 TDs from 1999 through 2006.

I think that what will work against Welker is how Great Tom Brady is. The committee will look at what Julian Edelman has done since Welker left and use that to discount Welker.

I think that Welker is a borderline HOF candidate that will probably not get in..

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Many things work against Welker compared to those two:

• Both Harrison and especially Irvin played in a time where most of the league were run heavy on early downs (at least most of the first half of Harrison's career). It wasn't a pass happy era. Welker got most of his numbers after the rules were changed to make it easier for teams to pass. Irvin, in this era, would be putting up 1,500 yards plus a season.
• Welker only had 5 years where he got over 1,000 yards and only three over 1,200 yards. In comparison, Harrison had 8 years over 1,000 with 6 of them over 1,2oo and Irvin had 7 years over 1,00o and 5 of them over 1,2oo.
• Welker was not a red zone target and his TD numbers are low. Welker has 50 career TDs while Irvin has 65 and Harrison has 80.
• Welker's numbers suggest, right or wrong, that he was a product of the Patriots' system and Brady (as you say). His numbers pre and post Patriots are significantly lower than they were here. Add the fact that guys like Edelman and Troy had monster numbers in this system compared to their talent level, just pushes that belief.
• Welker didn't have a great YPC average. His career average was 11.0 YPC. I know that is misleading since he usually caught the ball 2-3 yards out and made things happen with his legs, but the HOF is a statistics thing and that will count against him
• As you said, he was a slot receiver. The HOF voters tend to be drawn to the outside the numbers, vertical threats.

Again, I think there is no chance he gets in to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Too much working against him to have it ever to happen. I hate to say it, but I don't even know if he is borderline HOF material. I don't think voters will even consider him unless they feel that the Super Bowl era deserves more HOFers than Brady, Vinatieri, and the small handful of true borderline guys like Law, Seymour, and Mankins.

Welker should be a first ballot Patriots HOFer though.

robertweathers said:

He has the numbers but not the cache.

If he had two Lombardis.....whole different discussion.

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I don't think he has the numbers to be honest with you. His TD totals and YPC average work against him. But all his numbers are great, but not outstanding.

He is 47th in most receiving years in history (guys still in the league like Boldin and Roddy White have far more). He is tied for 114th in most receiving TDs with a bunch of guys. Welker isn't even ranked in the top 250 YPC average of all time.

The numbers actually work against Welker. It is his intangibles that will have to get him in if he has a chance at all. People will have to argue how he turned a nothing two yard quick slant into a 15 yard gainer by making LBers twice his size bounce right off of him. Unfortunately, it is numbers and not the intangibles that get people in the Hall.

I say no, and it's because he decided to leave here. If he stays here and has a couple more great seasons, he's in.

But because he decided to go to Denver and got buried into a smaller role, his stats add up just a little short.

Someone who I do think is HOF worthy from our past teams is Seymour.

Close but no banana or yellow jacket.

Joey007 said:

Someone who I do think is HOF worthy from our past teams is Seymour.

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I think Seymour should get in, but he is hurt because he played with the Patriots and he sacrificed personal glory for team. The guy would be a guaranteed first ballot if he played for a team where he was allowed to just pin his ears back and go after the QB on passing downs. He didn't do that with the Pats.

Tony2046 said:

Close but no banana or yellow jacket.


View attachment 13098

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Photos like that are a Pats fan's anti-Viagra.

Rob0729 said:

I don't think he has the numbers to be honest with you. His TD totals and YPC average work against him. But all his numbers are great, but not outstanding.

He is 47th in most receiving years in history (guys still in the league like Boldin and Roddy White have far more). He is tied for 114th in most receiving TDs with a bunch of guys. Welker isn't even ranked in the top 250 YPC average of all time.

The numbers actually work against Welker. It is his intangibles that will have to get him in if he has a chance at all. People will have to argue how he turned a nothing two yard quick slant into a 15 yard gainer by making LBers twice his size bounce right off of him. Unfortunately, it is numbers and not the intangibles that get people in the Hall.

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I think with receivers, numbers mean something but not everything. As you say there are a litny of WRs that have more receptions and yards more than WW but a) are not in the HoF b/c their careers were unremarkable and b) have not won.

Look at all the receivers with higher than WW and you'll follow my point.

If WW won 2 SBs he'd get in.

TinhWoodhead said:

He was great but will come up short..

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He's always been a bit short.

But yeah, I agree. Great player, just not a HOFer. Close, but compared to his contemporaries, probably not.

I can't think of many players who played the slot better than Welker did. But I don't think slot receivers are looked at favorably when it comes time for HOF induction.

Rob0729 said:

I think Seymour should get in, but he is hurt because he played with the Patriots and he sacrificed personal glory for team. The guy would be a guaranteed first ballot if he played for a team where he was allowed to just pin his ears back and go after the QB on passing downs. He didn't do that with the Pats.

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The stats thing hurts but I think as the years and even decades pass we will end up surprised by a few guys that get in. I just don't think you can win the way we have without several HoFers and the people who decide these things will be getting packages if info about our guys and those rings pictured on the front cover will speak loudly.

It's gonna take some time for some of these guys but at some point I think it will kick. Two top candidates for this in my mind are Big Sey and Willie Mac. The rings being at the front if the conversation for Willie his playoff stats will help him and for Seymour his playing 3-4 DE and giving up some stats for the team will eventually resonate.
Ty too but I think he is closer to getting in already.

Maybe I'm wrong but I have to believe we have more than just BB, TB, and a kicker enshrined.

I think of someone like Lynn Swan as an example of what I'm getting at. Overall stats might not be there but the iconic playoff moments and his rings put him over the top.

should Welker make the Hall?

only if they have a "Vegetable Wing"....or a kid's wing devoted to Cabbage Patch dolls.

Rob0729 said:

I think Seymour should get in, but he is hurt because he played with the Patriots and he sacrificed personal glory for team. The guy would be a guaranteed first ballot if he played for a team where he was allowed to just pin his ears back and go after the QB on passing downs. He didn't do that with the Pats.

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7 time pro bowler and all 2000's decade team will help him with credentials.

Mostly just gonna echo others in that he is close and borderline but not quite HOF worthy. There is already a back log of receivers waiting to get in and a couple contemporary ones are coming up in Moss and TO. Wes is the best slot to ever play the game, I have huge respect for his game and wore his jersey proudly while he was here. The problem I believe he will run into is while the HOF is supposed to be for the best at their positions he was never considered an elite receiver. He caught a ton of balls, made God knows who many crucial 3rd down conversions, and was an all around pain in the ass for anyone guarding him but he does not have the highlight reel to wow people. Lynn Swann has no business being in the HOF but he is cuz of 4 rings and that catch against Dallas. You know the one, you have seen it 100 times. It's iconic and poetic a ballerina catching a ball. Where is Wes's moment that makes the judges catch their breath and go wow that's amazing. He doesn't have one because he was a machine that could do one thing better then anyone else, get open FAST. Problem is that's boring to watch for most people and because of that I would bet on him being in the running for a long time but NOT getting in. If I was a judge I would vote yes because The hall is supposed to house the best of the best and Welker is the best SLOT of all time. 6 seasons with 100 or more receptions. Only two other players with 5. First ballet patriot HOF IMO, for 6 years Brady may have been the driver of the offense, but Welker was the engine.

It's sad but the things that stand out about his career for me are the two drops in the SB and the AFCCG. Great regular season player though.

robertweathers said:

I think with receivers, numbers mean something but not everything. As you say there are a litny of WRs that have more receptions and yards more than WW but a) are not in the HoF b/c their careers were unremarkable and b) have not won.

Look at all the receivers with higher than WW and you'll follow my point.

If WW won 2 SBs he'd get in.

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Stats are bigger than you think. Yes, there are WRs in the Hall with lesser stats than Welker, but that is misleading. Most of them have lesser stats because of the era they played in. Welker played in the era where the rules are skewed to benefit the passing game and teams have de-emphasized the running game.

You take some of these Hall of Fame receivers of the 70s and 80s and give them the same conditions as receivers have gotten over the last 10 years and their numbers would be far better than they are.

Rob0729 said:

Stats are bigger than you think. Yes, there are WRs in the Hall with lesser stats than Welker, but that is misleading. Most of them have lesser stats because of the era they played in. Welker played in the era where the rules are skewed to benefit the passing game and teams have de-emphasized the running game.

You take some of these Hall of Fame receivers of the 70s and 80s and give them the same conditions as receivers have gotten over the last 10 years and their numbers would be far better than they are.

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Yes. Guys like Allworth, Bilitnikoff have less stats but won in a different era.

My point is that there are WRs with better numbers than WW that will never get in the HoF b/c they have not won.