Vincent Valentine: The Tape

FredFromDartmouth said:

OK, I see your point. There seems to be two versions of this guy. One guy showed excellent strength and push while the other version was Ron Brace. I hope it is just an easy-to-recover-from injury issue.

As far as this statement: "best broad jump and 2nd best shuttle time of any 325+ lbs defensive tackle over the past decade", I am not so sure. He did not register in the top 15 in any category at the Combine including shuttle and broad jump; maybe he is still injured.

Click to expand...

The qualifier is 325 pounds plus in this scenario. Keep that in mind, because it's rare you see that kind of explosion at that size on the defensive line. There were a few OTs who hit those marks, but rarely do you see it in a nose tackle.

Now, I agree that some of his tape is alarming, but there is such a clear difference between his healthy and non-healthy versions that I'm convinced the bad tape doesn't tell the whole story. If he can stay healthy (and I think we're due for some health after the string of injuries we dealt with last year), then he could be a force.

The real point, though, is that we have Brown, Branch, Knighton, Kearse, Khun, Grissom, etc, in front of him. It's not like we're relying on him for significant playing time early on. He can be in a rotation and stay fresh and strong. Even if Valentine never sees the field this year, I think our DL will be okay.

I think people have to remember that big men like that strugle pushing that eight around, whether injured or not. Look at Branch. He was prett average last year, but his most recent season, he was fired up. takes a lot of motivation to push that much weight around injured, or out of synch.

That's why they took a shot at Brace. If he had the drive, he could have been a good tackle. Your limited in the amount of forceful athletic guys, who could easily turn into lardos.

RayClay said:

I think people have to remember that big men like that strugle pushing that eight around, whether injured or not. Look at Branch. He was prett average last year, but his most recent season, he was fired up. takes a lot of motivation to push that much weight around injured, or out of synch.

That's why they took a shot at Brace. If he had the drive, he could have been a good tackle. Your limited in the amount of forceful athletic guys, who could easily turn into lardos.

Click to expand...

Brace may also just have been too nice a guy, a big bear. Not sure about Valentine.

Well he moves too well to be Ron Brace that's for sure. That guy was a stationary cream puff!

This is really bad, but Valentine only did 17 reps for the bench press at the Combine. Jonathan Jones did 19!!! So a UDFA corner for the Patriots is stronger than the DT?

Valentine also did a blistering 8.03 for the 3-cone

Again... his size needs to be considered. I'll give you the bench, I wanted more but a bench is honestly a poor measure of strength.You and I could train to have good bench numbers . I've put up 225 24 times consecutively when I was really tuned into the gym but did you see his squat numbers (possibly strongest in NFL history)...that's a much more telling number than bench.

No doubt he will have to work out muscle imbalances in Foxboro, which I'm sure he will.

As far as speed.....he's 330 Pds... a NT/DT did you want a sub 7 3 cone?????

FredFromDartmouth said:

This is really bad, but Valentine only did 17 reps for the bench press at the Combine. Jonathan Jones did 19!!! So a UDFA corner for the Patriots is stronger than the DT?

Valentine also did a blistering 8.03 for the 3-cone

Click to expand...

That does suck for a man his size. With the right training program and commitment he should be able to improve his upper body strength easily.

I absolutely despise the bench press. It's not useful or relevant for anything strength-related, in my opinion. Now, the argument can be made that the Combine is a job interview, and therefore players should prepare themselves accordingly in order to perform as strongly as possible in each event. In that case, low numbers can show a lack of commitment, etc, and that line of reasoning has some merit. For the real world of football, however, actual reps mean nothing. It's silly that in 2016 we still use such an outdated metric.

Note: I'm not bashing the bench press itself as an exercise tool, just its use in the current NFL as a predictor of success. Based on all the studies I've looked at, bench press has minimal correlation to NFL performance. It's simply traditional at this point, so inertia keeps it in place. I'd love to see a variety of more functional movement and strength tests.

Or if they want a clean, like-to-like comparison, attach sensors to the sleds or tackle dummies on the field, and have prospects use actual football techniques on them to simulate game-day movements. Measure the force of the impact. Repeat 30 or 40 times, or however many snaps they think a rookie would average per game. See who creates the most power. See if there's a drop off in intensity. Chart each player on a simple graph of reps and power generated. The graphs would be cool to analyse, and they'd be a lot easier to translate to football moves than bench press reps.

Oh, is he going to have fun trying to pass the conditioning run this summer. There is always some poor sap or two who fails and you gotta wonder about Valentine.

Putting that much stock in any of these one time contests is stupid. Players might have naging injuries but still work out. Look at Butler. I'm sure glad he had a lousy 40 that day.

FredFromDartmouth said:

Oh, is he going to have fun trying to pass the conditioning run this summer. There is always some poor sap or two who fails and you gotta wonder about Valentine.

Click to expand...

Glad we had that poor sap Branch this year.

I'll bet he comes into camp in shape this year after the torment he got the last time he failed.

I'll bet Valentine is not that smart about it (yet) and trundles into camp out of shape...and fails the run. He has no idea of the bleep-storm he will get from the media if he does that, no idea.

ChrisR2223 said:

Maybe he will get in line for NFL money though.
He seemed motivated to prove people wrong.
Would love for him to do so.

Click to expand...

If he's allegedly fat and lazy with a career and millions of dollars at stake what is his motivation after you hand him his money?