It's Time Time Cut Both Kline and Dobson

mgteich said:

Edelman
Hogan
Amendola
Mitchell
Martin

I don't even think that there will be 5 WR's on the roster. I don't see how Dobson and Washington are fighting for an additional roster spot. At best, they both are competing for Martin's spot. I would note that Lucien and Harper are also competing for that roster spot.

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Washington and Dobson are the only downfield receivers on the roster. One of them will make it, and it's very likely to be Washington. Martin is just a guy, he's no lock, and his skillset as a receiver seems redundant with Mitchell added. My guess for the receivers is Edelman, Hogan, Amendola, Washington, Mitchell. In theory, they could keep a 6th receiver like Martin or Lucien if they only keep 2 tight ends, for instance.

patchick said:

OK, I'll bite:

- Cooper is a total question mark
- Thuney's position is TBD
- Jackson was a mixed bag as a rookie
- Karras is a late-round pick
- Andrews is a pure center
- Mason might be best at center as well

Honestly, is there a single OG on the roster who you feel confident would start over Klein? Yes, I hope and believe they'll end up doing better than him, but I see no reason to cut him at this point.

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OK, uncle.

If Stork isn't even worth a mention because of his health history, then for sure we should keep Kline through camp. Mason is needed at center.

Do you think that Vollmer is gone for 2016? Otherwise, I expect that Thuney will be in the mix for a starting OG position.

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BOTTOM LINE
I'm fine with keeping everyone that we have through Training Camp. Perhaps needing cap money for a potential extension might change this.

We should pick up Slauson who was released by Chicago.

mgteich said:

BOTTOM LINE
I'm fine with keeping everyone that we have through Training Camp. Perhaps needing cap money for a potential extension might change this.

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Yeah, I think Kline and Amendola are in similar situations (though for somewhat different reasons). IF the young'uns look good in OTAs and camp, they could be relatively early vet-courtesy cuts. But there are too many unknowns to take the chance now.

mgteich said:

Let's look at this full complement of TWELVE players.

C: Solder, Andrews
OT: Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Thuney, Waddle, Fleming
OG: Cooper, Mason, Jackson, Kline

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fleming's a goner!!

mgteich said:

Let's look at this full complement of TWELVE players.

C: STORK, Andrews
OT: Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Thuney, Waddle, Fleming
OG: Cooper, Mason, Jackson, Kline

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We have 4 G, Kline is the only starter who has had any success with this team. Fleming looks shaky. Stork looks medically shaky. Lots of injuries last year and some haven't healed. Id expect a T to get cut before a G.

mgteich said:

Let's look at this full complement of TWELVE players.

C: Solder, Andrews
OT: Solder, Vollmer, Cannon, Thuney, Waddle, Fleming
OG: Cooper, Mason, Jackson, Kline

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Cameron Fleming sucks.

mgteich said:

There are better uses of cap money than having Dobson and Kline on the roster. There is no reason to risk either of them getting injured.

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Base salary
Amendola - $5.0 million
Cannon - $3.4 million
Edelman - $2.5 million

www.patscap.com/

Two New England Patriots are overpaid.

Solder - Mason - Stork - Kline - Vollmer for 2016.

Jackson takes over Klines spot in 2017, Thuney takes over a T spot in 2017, ideally Cooper beats out Jackson as his athletic potential was the reason he was a top 10 pick. IMO Mason is a LG of the future, our next Mankins.

As far as WR:

1.) Edelman
2.) Amendola/ if paycut
3.) Hogan (2.) if Amendola is gone)
4.) Mitchell (Possibly 3)
5.) Washington (His career consistency pushes hopeful contributor K. Martin off the list)
6.) Martin (Assuming Amendola refused a paycut and is gone, making Martin the 5.)

Edelman, Amendola, and Hogan are similar players. Mitchell reminds me of LaFell, excells at intermediate areas and can break a few tackles or make guys miss, Washington is what Dobson was supposed to be, except he's been doing it for almost a decade now. Keyshawn Martin is kind of a hybrid LaFell/Washington who has shown potential but proven nothing really.

strngplyr said:

Solder - Mason - Stork - Kline - Vollmer for 2016.

Jackson takes over Klines spot in 2017, Thuney takes over a T spot in 2017, ideally Cooper beats out Jackson as his athletic potential was the reason he was a top 10 pick. IMO Mason is a LG of the future, our next Mankins.

As far as WR:

1.) Edelman
2.) Amendola/ if paycut
3.) Hogan (2.) if Amendola is gone)
4.) Mitchell (Possibly 3)
5.) Washington (His career consistency pushes hopeful contributor K. Martin off the list)
6.) Martin (Assuming Amendola refused a paycut and is gone, making Martin the 5.)

Edelman, Amendola, and Hogan are similar players. Mitchell reminds me of LaFell, excells at intermediate areas and can break a few tackles or make guys miss, Washington is what Dobson was supposed to be, except he's been doing it for almost a decade now. Keyshawn Martin is kind of a hybrid LaFell/Washington who has shown potential but proven nothing really.

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I agree with your thoughts at OL and even at WR, with one major difference: I could not imagine a scenario where a rookie (Mitchell) beats out vets who know the system (Washington, Dobson, Martin) in his first year here.

I think the spot is Washington's to lose. He's the proven vet coming from a system that mimics ours. The only ways I see Martin beating him for that spot would be if Martin excels or Washington just sucks.

I'd have Edelman, Amendola, Hogan, Washington, and Mitchell (WR5). Dobson is a goner and Martin is a tough cut, since he at least knew the system and produced enough to justify his spot.

Next year, in a perfect world, Mitchell has the playbook down and shows enough to take that WR3 spot you're talking about. Fingers crossed.

I'm surprised people are already downplaying Keyshwn Martin....he made some great plays on the field in a very short amount of time, and it obviously left an impression on the Brady and the coaches. Why else would they have given him a contract extension in-season?

I don't disagree with the OP about the players' abilities or eventual fate, I just don't see the benefit in cutting them right now.

There's not much downside to letting them come to camp and compete, unless you can use that expanded roster spot for someone potentially better.

For all we know, they're about to emerge. Probably not, but it happens every year.

When Welker was a free agent, we signed Amendola to a big contract. Jules wasn't very established, playing in only 9 games the season before for 21 catches. His biggest contributions were as a punt returner, but he wasn't re-signed right away. He even took a visit to the Giants before getting a low-ball offer and coming back to the Patriots. The team then drafted Dobson and Boyce a few weeks later and it looked like the writing was on the wall. And if you had to pick the team in May, most wouldn't have had him on the roster.

Wendell was on the bubble after the Patriots spent a 4th on Stork, and most felt he was too small to play guard. After signing a 2-year deal, he was at risk of being cut. But he ended up making the roster, then eventually got inserted at guard and helped stabilize our OL. He was a key part of our championship run.

I'm not suggesting Dobson or Kline will matter. They will both likely get cut. But we don't need to make a decision right now. I don't see why fans are so impatient about these things. Let them come in, compete, see what happens. Maybe they work out. Maybe they don't, like we all think. But there's no downside to waiting and seeing. It's like scratching half a lottery ticket and assuming it's a loser and throwing it out.

ATippett56 said:

Base salary
Amendola - $5.0 million
Cannon - $3.4 million
Edelman - $2.5 million

www.patscap.com/

Two New England Patriots are overpaid.

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Or is one underpaid? I've always said their contracts should be flipped (because the total amount NE pays for the two of them is reasonable, just misapplied) but whether you look at base salary, cap hit, or AAV for the two of them, Edelman's contract numbers are low more than Amendola's are high when you compare them to league norms.

Cannon....yeah. I got nothing.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

I'm surprised people are already downplaying Keyshwn Martin....he made some great plays on the field in a very short amount of time, and it obviously left an impression on the Brady and the coaches. Why else would they have given him a contract extension in-season?

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Because he's not very good.

mgteich said:

There are better uses of cap money than having Dobson and Kline on the roster. There is no reason to risk either of them getting injured.

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How about dobson and CANNON.

reflexblue said:

How about dobson and CANNON.

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Right now he is primary backup tackle

Gronkowski123 said:

fleming's a goner!!

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One can only hope.

supafly said:

I agree with your thoughts at OL and even at WR, with one major difference: I could not imagine a scenario where a rookie (Mitchell) beats out vets who know the system (Washington, Dobson, Martin) in his first year here.

I think the spot is Washington's to lose. He's the proven vet coming from a system that mimics ours. The only ways I see Martin beating him for that spot would be if Martin excels or Washington just sucks.

I'd have Edelman, Amendola, Hogan, Washington, and Mitchell (WR5). Dobson is a goner and Martin is a tough cut, since he at least knew the system and produced enough to justify his spot.

Next year, in a perfect world, Mitchell has the playbook down and shows enough to take that WR3 spot you're talking about. Fingers crossed.

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I suppose we can speculate about whether Washington will definitely beat out Martin. However, the team has a a lot to see before making that determination.

In any case, IMHO, all six plus Lucien are more likely that Dobson to make the 53. I see no reason not to allow Dobson to try to find an opportunity elsewhere.

My Early Patriots roster 1.0 without the udfa:

54 Players:

Players highlighted in bold are free agents next year

• QB - 3 Brady, Garoppolo, Brissett
• RB - 4 Brown, James White, Lewis, Blount - With an extra QB they will only carry 4 backs, so Bolden as only a STer guy and with $1,122,500 cap savings is the man to go. Other cuts: Devlin, Gaffney, Iosefa.
• C - 1 Stork - Cuts: Andrews, Shaquille Mason.
• G - 4 Karras, Cooper, Mason, Jackson; Cuts: Kline, Barker. So they need a guy like Karras ( 4th best OG in pass protection). Jackson gets the nod because his cheaper. Kline and Cooper will fight. I read that Cooper can play C, so thats why he gets the nod over Kline.
• OT - 4 Vollmer, Solder, Thuney, Waddle - Cuts: Cannon, Milton. They will carry 4 T because Thuney is a rookie.
• WR - 5 Mitchell, Edelman, Hogan, Washington, Martin Cuts: Amendola , Lucien, Carter, Harper. Why Amendola? Because of his cap number. 2. Because Cyrus is a great returner. 3. Because of Hogan. He is kind of redundant.
• TE - 3 Rob Gronkowski, Bennett, Harbor. Cuts: Williams, Derby.
• DE - 5 Ninkovich, Long, Flowers, Sheard, Grissom. Cuts: Kearse.
• DT - 4 Knighton, Valentine, Branch, Malcom Brown. Cuts: Kuhn, Vellano.
• LB - 5 Collins, Hightower, Shea, Freeny, Kamu. Cuts:Bostic, Snyder, Vaughters, Rufus Johnson, Elandom. They will keep their 250+ guys, plus Kamu and to play the LB/S role. For now i dont believe they switch to a 3-4 defense. They dont have the personnel.
• CB - 5 Ryan, Butler, Cyrus Jones, Coleman, Roberts. Cuts: Melvin, Vereen.
• S - 4 McCourty,Harmon, Chung, Richards Cut: Biggers, Cedric.
• ST - 3 Slater, Ebner, King( Great STer and cheaper than Bolden)
• P - 1 Allen
• K - 1 Gostkowski
• LS - 1 Cardona. Cut: Yount

19 FA:

Brown, Blount, Freeny, Washington are easily replaceable ...
King, Ninko and Coleman, Vollmer should be cheap
Bennett is a one year rental imo.
Cooper, Long are experiments ???
Knighton and Branch if they are switching to a 3-4 defense how many DT they need? I think they can let them go and grab another one via draft.
Butler, Collins and HT will stay...
Sheard depends if he want 7-8m or 10+ a year...
Harmon and Ryan will be too expensive for us... Vereen situtation ...

Kline played well for Scar. I wouldn't cut him. Marcus Cannon, on the other hand.