We Should Have Enough Quality Interior Linemen

The interior of the OL needed a complete makeover. In the past 3 years, that's happened. We have no idea who will start at any of the positions, but we certainly have the players.

C - Stork, Andrews (some have suggested Mason)
G - Mason, Jackson, Thuney, Cooper, Kline, Karras

We've come a long way from having to consider Cannon one of our guards.

I completely agree. I'd have liked some investment at the tackle positions as well, but obviously the value just wasn't there this year.

If I was Ted Karras, I'd be slightly pissed off at ending up in such a crowded situation at Guard. It'll be tough for him to make the roster with this many players ahead of him. Probably one for the practice squad, whether or not he impresses - and if he does, it'll be Ted Larsen all over again.

My guess this year:

LG - Cooper (Thuney)
C - Stork (Andrews)
RG - Mason (Kline)

Cut: Jackson, Karras

I mentioned elsewhere that I really didn't like Tre Jackson coming out of college, and obviously last year did nothing to change that - not that it was necessarily his fault. But I just don't see him as an NFL-quality lineman.

I think Kline holds on because of his experience and versatility, especially when most of the other interior linemen would be new to the Patriots system.

Nonentity said:

I mentioned elsewhere that I really didn't like Tre Jackson coming out of college, and obviously last year did nothing to change that - not that it was necessarily his fault. But I just don't see him as an NFL-quality lineman.

I think Kline holds on because of his experience and versatility, especially when most of the other interior linemen would be new to the Patriots system.

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I tend to agree. I find it mildly amusing how so many here had Kline as one of the more pleasant surprises of the first 10-12 games of the season, to the point where threads were started about who to trade. Then once he became injured for the last month or so, he's suddenly immediately expendable due to the addition of some kids out of college. While Kline certainly has a limited ceiling, he also reminds me of guys like Connelly and Wendell, who were rather unremarkable, but also good enough to fill a role.

mgteich said:

We've come a long way from having to consider Cannon one of our guards.

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I'm thinking that they "considered" (for a very brief amount of time) Cannon at the position of guard because they didn't really know where he fit best, as opposed to having to force him there due to a lack of viable interior options, as you may be suggesting.

As a whole, I think our interior OL did very well in 2014 when Brady had somewhere between 20-25 sacks (or "real" sacks, as there may have been a couple more in the meaningless week 17 game vs. BUF when they pulled most of the starters). It really wasn't until the overhaul where we began to see the weaknesses magnified so badly. I'm not claiming that it was a brick wall full of John Hanna's, but the issues really rose to the surface last season with Jackson, Mason, and the late season injury to Kline.

Losing Connelly and Wendell certainly hurt, if only for their experience and knowledge of the system. I wouldn't be so quick to move on someone like Kline, who is under a cheap deal and is pretty much the only real vet we have. I see a bunch of darts thrown at the wall, and nothing else. You seem to be much more optimistic than I am, although either way, I definitely agree with you that we should be in better shape than last year no matter what.

It's amazing that we have one of the best QBs in the game, but still haven't worked out the kinks to give him a reliable o-line.

Brady deserves better than what we've given him

I hope we start drafting some 1st round o-linemen, they usually turn out okay and usually have a long career.
We gotta start thinking about the future and start thinking about Tom Brady's replacement when the time comes but must have a strong oline to help develop the next QB. Look at Andrew Luck, **** o line killed him last season and ending his season early. People forget how valuable a good O-line is. I remember the good old days when we had top 3 oline in the league and what we were able to accomplish with it.

mgteich said:

C - Stork, Andrews (some have suggested Mason)
G - Mason, Jackson, Thuney, Cooper, Kline, Karras

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To add to this, there were post-draft quotes from scouts about Thuney perhaps being best fit to play at center.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

Brady deserves better than what we've given him

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I think we have incredible depth and talent on the OL. Last year, they were a bit snakebit with injuries, and people playing out of position, including their practice squad guys. Cannon and Fleming was never the plan. But the duct tape was good enough to make the AFC Championship game, so let's not burn them in effigy.

Carolina didn't do much better against that Denver D, you'll remember. Sometimes you just have to tip your cap.

thecore762 said:

I hope we start drafting some 1st round o-linemen, they usually turn out okay and usually have a long career.

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Like Solder, whose injury started the avalanche of problems for the OL in 2015?

Our "great" offensive line featured Light (2nd), Mankins (32nd overall), Koppen (4th), Andruzzi (Undrafted)/Neal (Undrafted) and Vollmer (2nd). Compare that with our likely starting 2016 OL of Solder (1st), Cooper (1st), Stork (4th), Mason (4th), Vollmer (2nd), and I'm not exactly sure what more we should wish for in terms of talent. The raw talent is better now than it's ever been-- the draft pedigrees are certainly higher anyway.

We have more pure talent on the OL roster right now than I can ever remember having at one time.

Stork and Andrews, alone, is a treasure trove at OC. If your center has the smarts and versatility to play a credible tackle, that's a pretty rare and impressive thing.

At OG, Mason, Cooper, Jackson, Kline and Karras competing for three roster spots... dear god. I'm one that thinks Jackson played quite well for a rookie starter, considering he spent most of his season between a rookie UDFA at OC and a guy forced out of position at OT due to injuries. No wonder the line was shaky, but how can you write off Jackson for being put into that situation. Overall, I think he handled it pretty well. The ceiling on Mason is crazy high, I think everyone agrees, but he needs to learn pass protection. And remember that either Stork or Andrews (blooded and proven, and both on rookie contracts) should be able to move to OG and play a quality game there if we needed them to.

Which is what makes the Karras pick truly dumbfounding. Why even spend the pick? How the hell can he remotely hope to make this roster? I suppose if Karras really shows up in TC, BB could clear space by trading some of his veterans-- send Kline to Detroit or Cleveland for a late round pick, or an UDFA DB that they want to test drive in the kicking game. If that happens, plus, if Cooper completely washes out... then Karras has a bit of sunlight to actually make the roster. But, as OP said, he's got a tough draw.

I truly believe there was a bit of a crisis in the War Room. Once they got into the 200s with bunch of compensatory 6th rounders that they can't offload, and a roster was already full-up. They're looking at a list of players on their board, none of which has any real chance to make the team. What are you going to do?

All you can do it take BPA. Spend it on a player they felt should have gone much earlier, despite the fact that he plays at a position of strength where the team is already deep, stacked and young. In theory, there's a long term cap savings to be found, if they drop or trade Kline, cut Cooper then use Karras as their emergency interior lineman instead. I kinda hope that's how it plays out for the kid.

Chiuba E. Obele said:

It's amazing that we have one of the best QBs in the game, but still haven't worked out the kinks to give him a reliable o-line.

Brady deserves better than what we've given him

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While I agree he deserves better it's not like Bill hasn't invested in the position. He has a first and a second rounder as starting tackles as well as multiple 3rd and fourth rounders and another first round guy Bill traded for on the interior. They just need to play better than they have and hopefully with Scar coming back they will.

thecore762 said:

I hope we start drafting some 1st round o-linemen, they usually turn out okay and usually have a long career.
We gotta start thinking about the future and start thinking about Tom Brady's replacement when the time comes but must have a strong oline to help develop the next QB. Look at Andrew Luck, **** o line killed him last season and ending his season early. People forget how valuable a good O-line is. I remember the good old days when we had top 3 oline in the league and what we were able to accomplish with it.

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Agree completely. As important as a solid Oline is to keeping Brady going, it is even more important for a new QB to be able get comfy in the pocket and slow the game down, allowing him to process things. So many promising young QBs get their careers ruined by being pushed out to play behind an Oline that can't do its job.

rookBoston said:

I truly believe there was a bit of a crisis in the War Room. Once they got into the 200s with bunch of compensatory 6th rounders that they can't offload, and a roster was already full-up. They're looking at a list of players on their board, none of which has any real chance to make the team. What are you going to do?

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So, none of the player available 200 or later had a chance of beating out the mighty Freeny, Bostic and Rufus Johnson for 1-3 LB roster spots?

so happy that we are talking football today and not court tv