Initial thoughts on the Patriots draft

Back from Chicago and wanted to get some thoughts down before I lose them. I will post more when I have a little more time.

Quick Thoughts On The Patriots Draft | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2014 NFL Draft

Really interested by the story that Su'a Cravens was sure that he was going to be a Patriot. Combine that with the rumour from another team's scout that the Pats were interested in a SS and that I know of someone who knows someone with access to the Pats board who also said that our first pick was likely a SS/LB and it looks likely that we were probably interested in Cravens at 60. The rumour about the Pats interest in Jaylon Smith doesn't really put to bed the idea that the Pats were looking at, at least, a smaller quicker linebacker.

So I wonder if Grugier-Hill has a better chance of making the team than his draft position suggests.

manxman2601 said:

Really interested by the story that Su'a Cravens was sure that he was going to be a Patriot. Combine that with the rumour from another team's scout that the Pats were interested in a SS and that I know of someone who knows someone with access to the Pats board who also said that our first pick was likely a SS/LB and it looks likely that we were probably interested in Cravens at 60. The rumour about the Pats interest in Jaylon Smith doesn't really put to bed the idea that the Pats were looking at, at least, a smaller quicker linebacker.

So I wonder if Grugier-Hill has a better chance of making the team than his draft position suggests.

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Think it all depends how he develops. They clearly want someone in that role, likely because Chung is too small to do what he does forever.

I haven't really watched Vincent valentine but I can't help but to wonder why bb did just didn't take Andrew billings. He seems (at least to me) like the all around better prospect. Can somebody tell me something I'm not noticing about him.

Gabriel_p94 said:

I haven't really watched Vincent valentine but I can't help but to wonder why bb did just didn't take Andrew billings. He seems (at least to me) like the all around better prospect. Can somebody tell me something I'm not noticing about him.

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It certainly looks like size is part of the equation. In 2017, 6'5¾", 350 pound Alan Branch and 6'3", 354 pound Terrance Knighton will be free agents. It would make sense that 6'⅝", 311 pound Billings might not be their ideal replacement a year from now, where 6'3⅝", 329 pound Valentine is a better fit. That's rare size that as far as I can tell only shows up in three prospects, one of which was a first round pick. The expectation is that the Pats will mostly use a three man rotation at DT with 6'2⅜", 320 pound Malcom Brown being by far the smallest. I think the goal is to do something similar in 2017, with Valentine replacing either Branch or Knighton.

At least BB wasn't wearing his Navy hoodie on Day 3 when the ravens grabbed Reynolds.

Some months ago I suggested that cravens would likely be a player they would take if they had kept their 1st.

As the draft process went on, my interest in him waned, but interesting to see that desires position was kept.

I would agree that this likely means that grugier-hill has a better shot than probably imagined in sticking.

I was inteigued by the number of undersized edge players the Pats interviewed at the combine (Ngakoue, Nicholas, McCailster et al). We didn't draft any of them, but we signed one of them as a UDFA in CJ Johnson.

Patriots signed TE Bryce Williams today. Really thought he would get drafted. That is a nice pickup as an UDFA

I think that in years to come, this draft will be seen as a fairly bad one. There will be good contributors but the number of stars will be limited. At OT in particular. It seemed like a big need so I spent a lot of time trying to find the least square peg but in truth, none of the OT prospects really excited me. I'm wishing I'd had the courage that BB did to say, "this is a bad group, let's not bother taking an OT". Hopefully next year's crop will be better. Having daid that, I liked the RB group more than I suspect BB or the rest of the NFL did.

But two lessons for next year. RBs that aren't considered gamebreakers and limited DTs should be graded lower than perhaps we thought.

manxman2601 said:

I think that in years to come, this draft will be seen as a fairly bad one. There will be good contributors but the number of stars will be limited. At OT in particular. It seemed like a big need so I spent a lot of time trying to find the least square peg but in truth, none of the OT prospects really excited me. I'm wishing I'd had the courage that BB did to say, "this is a bad group, let's not bother taking an OT". Hopefully next year's crop will be better. Having daid that, I liked the RB group more than I suspect BB or the rest of the NFL did.

But two lessons for next year. RBs that aren't considered gamebreakers and limited DTs should be graded lower than perhaps we thought.

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thanks again

agree with OTs - after seeing Clark I lost interest really, he didn't look like potential professional football player to me. Time will tell. I am good he's with Colts. Frame and athlete are two different things. Athlete and football player also. I prefer the later. Without 1st OT was not an option.

RBs to me were the same story - 2 very good but unreachable. No regrets despite our painful RB situation. We needed an upgrade not depth or potential (knowing about next year). Also RBs are the cheapest commodity on the street all year round.

I do believe RBs are considered gamebreakers (just not in this class) - but they are hard to bet on because college defences are nothing like NFL. Also, while speed and agility can be fully developed in college body, strength and stamina (defence) need more time - so offensive college players tend to be overrated (especially by media and fans) coming to NFL. And then there is financial aspect: investing in RBs in draft gets you the lowest revenue and costs you the least in FA (where you also know what you're getting NFL wise). Thats why everybody wants to invest in QB, DE, DT, OT, WR, CB, LB even if its not a need.

To put it in context of this years offseason: no RB (except Elliott and Henry) could be considered an upgrade to Blount for 2016. Blount costs less then 1m$. Back up to back up QB costs at least twice that money (Hoyer).

All that said, NE might have a different look at RB post Brady. Next draft might start to reflect that. I do hope they surprise us and reach for a RB. I do hope they still find an upgrade for 2016 in FA. And I certainly hope that not reaching for Forte doesnt come to haunt as like last year.

manxman2601 said:

I think that in years to come, this draft will be seen as a fairly bad one. There will be good contributors but the number of stars will be limited. At OT in particular. It seemed like a big need so I spent a lot of time trying to find the least square peg but in truth, none of the OT prospects really excited me. I'm wishing I'd had the courage that BB did to say, "this is a bad group, let's not bother taking an OT". Hopefully next year's crop will be better. Having daid that, I liked the RB group more than I suspect BB or the rest of the NFL did.

But two lessons for next year. RBs that aren't considered gamebreakers and limited DTs should be graded lower than perhaps we thought.

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It's BB' world and we're just living in it

Sciz said:

It certainly looks like size is part of the equation. In 2017, 6'5¾", 350 pound Alan Branch and 6'3", 354 pound Terrance Knighton will be free agents. It would make sense that 6'⅝", 311 pound Billings might not be their ideal replacement a year from now, where 6'3⅝", 329 pound Valentine is a better fit. That's rare size that as far as I can tell only shows up in three prospects, one of which was a first round pick. The expectation is that the Pats will mostly use a three man rotation at DT with 6'2⅜", 320 pound Malcom Brown being by far the smallest. I think the goal is to do something similar in 2017, with Valentine replacing either Branch or Knighton.

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It only takes one team to reach for a player but it takes all 32 to allow a player to slide.

Not saying that Valentine is a reach, and the more I hear and see the better I like him. My point is more that, regardless of Billings' name recognition and fans' perception of his ability, 32 teams weren't convinced and we're in no hurry to draft him.

Valentine is likely the better pick.

Obviously this was one of the weaker drafts in recent years but it had its moments.

I said months ago and i will say again. The sweet spot in this draft was between the mid 2nd to 3rd. That is where the value was.

I saw way to many trades happen in the first and most of them where unjustified. I like that when the Pats trade up they tend to do it with a strong purpose and eyes wide open.

Next year's draft will be a lot more interesting and not just cause the Pats will have a 1st round pick. It is a better class with stronger OTs and RBs particularly.

As far as this years class goes obviously it is not exciting but going into the year besides OT back up I feel like this is a very strong team.

Cyrus Jones will solve the CB depth issue and the RBs will work themselves out. I am curious to see what Mitchell can bring as the Pats do need some outside the numbers help.

Generally though we get lost in worrying about the 53 man roster before we realize BB sees the last few spots as extremely flexible.

Generally we filled most of the key holes. 3rd/4th CB, 3rd/4th WR, 4th DT. We just need to hope Solder/Vollmer stay healthy and that Waddle can build on last year at OT and i think the Pats are ready to go.

Valentine can get in the game this season; he's good--when he puts his mind to it. The Georgia WR--I'm hoping he stays fit and is ready to go. Cyrus returning punts is a very good thing for our starting WRs. He should excel as a niccel. (my spelling) Thuney? In Dante I trust. And those end-round guys? ST? I hope so. That QB prolly will never develop as a legitimate player. I'd love to be wrong though. I still wish we had gone for QB Connor Shaw a couple of years ago. He's still in the league--might as well consider him as a free agent in future. I am more excited by the RB/WR undrafted guy from ASU. And I still hold out hope for RB Tyler Gaffney's eventual emergence. Great toughness intelligence and his #'s at the Combine are very good.
NFL Events: Combine Player Profiles - Tyler Gaffney

midwestpatsfan said:

Back from Chicago and wanted to get some thoughts down before I lose them. I will post more when I have a little more time.

Quick Thoughts On The Patriots Draft | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2014 NFL Draft

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I am in complete, 100% agreement with your assessment of Bill's (non-)performance in this draft.

The False Genius royally, royally fecked-up yet another draft, thereby greatly diminishing Brady's chances of winning one for the thumb which he so richly deserves.

Here's my do-over from a post on the main board:

2 of our biggest needs - LT & RB - were completely ignored. Inexcusable.

This is what the Naked Emperor should have done:

60) OT LeRaven Clark - He would've filled the biggest hole on this team: providing an athletic backup
for the annual Solder & Vollmer injuries, while being groomed to become the Starting LT by 2018.
What happened to Brady in the AFCC was a national embarrassment, and should have been off-season Priority #1. Instead, Bill has completely ignored this most-glaring need, to our inevitable downfall.

78) WR Braxton Miller - The next Anquan Bolden, lighter but more athletic, and just as tough.

91) CB Cyrus Jones - If he were 2-3" taller, then taking him at 60 would be justified…but he's not.

96) I would have traded this to Oakland for 114 & 154, which is what they gave Cleveland for 100.

112) I would have traded this to Chicago for 117 & 206, which is what they gave LA for 113.

114) DT Hassan Ridgeway - Malcom Brown's linemate at Texas, and the 3-Tech to replace predicted
bust Dom Easily. Willie Henry would also have been an acceptable answer.
Slow, weak, lazy Fat Vinnie Valentine at 96? Bill's worst 3rd-rounder ever, and that's saying a lot.

117) RBs Devontae Booker, Kenneth Dixon, Jordan Howard or Jonathan Williams - take your pick.

147 from Miami) LG/T Joe Dahl - Our Starting LG, who can play LT in a pinch better than anybody
else on this damn OL, including Vollmer.
I would have then traded 154 to Seattle instead of 147. Betcha they would've taken it too.

206 from Chicago) DE Stephen Weatherly - Best DE available, and would automatically become a far
superior upgrade to the execrable GeeNo Grissom.

208) TE Beau Sandland - Finally, a worthy replacement for The Prisoner; a Move TE who can really, really move. Devon Cajuste, Thomas Duarte & Stephen Anderson were also still available here.

214) OLB Travis Feeney - Most athletic LB available, would've been a top-125 pick were it not for his
shoulder injuries. The healthier but less experienced Aaron Wallace would also have been an acceptable answer.

221) WR Mitch Mathews, this year's version of Jeff Janis. Charone Peake, Kenny Lawler & Keyarris Garrett were also still available here.

225) CB Kalan Reed - the next Asante Samuel? - or CB/FS Jalen Mills, who would've been a top-100 pick
were it not for his injury/legal issues.

In summary:
2 Left-side OLmen? Check.
2 WRs with both size and speed? Check.
Powerful young legs at RB? Check.
An athletic, true Move TE? Check.
A strong and athletic 3-Tech? Check.
An athletic DE? Check.
An athletic LB? Check.
2 athletic DBs? Check.
Almost every, single hole on this team filled? Check.

I'm surprised that the Patriots did not make more of an attempt to cover possible losses to
their defense in 2017. I hope they aggressively pursue extending two or three of the following:
Hightower, Collins, Butler, Ryan, and Shead before the season begins.
They did a better job than normal pursuing UDFAs. Jones, Foster, and Williams are better than
some of the players they drafted,

Jimke said:

I'm surprised that the Patriots did not make more of an attempt to cover possible losses to
their defense in 2017. I hope they aggressively pursue extending two or three of the following:
Hightower, Collins, Butler, Ryan, and Shead before the season begins.
They did a better job than normal pursuing UDFAs. Jones, Foster, and Williams are better than
some of the players they drafted,

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Well I think drafting Cyrus Jones was made with an eye for the future in case we let walk Butler or Ryan.

I can see Trey Flowers being Sheard replacement if we let him walk.

I'd say judging by how we drafted and what we've done in FA, Pats are focusing on signing up the LB's long term.