Draft Day 2: Official Rounds 2-3 Thread

JMC00 said:

Ya let's just forget about that missed extra point and not deciding to go for it instead of take a FG with 5 minutes left decision.

Also do me a favor and go look at Travs Kelce's numbers from the divisional game the week before..

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Does Alex Smith throw the ball down the field? lol @ numbers being preferred over film.

Jamie Collins is not a damn safety, he's a big athletic linebacker and one of the best in football but when he's isolated in man coverage he's been beat. BB was furious that Patricia let him get put out wide on Daniels. Peyton was going there from the snap.

reflexblue said:

I would take Jack in the second, even trade up for him. I've heard pat kirwin repeatedly say that teams are worried he might only have a 5-6 year career, but kirwin also points out that's longer than most 1st rounders. So why couldn't jack play this year? As for smith I wouldn't spend a second, maybe the second 3rd rounder though.

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I'm on the bubble in this. I was all for it earlier today but I was unaware that he it's now saying he may need microfracture surgery, which, if true would cause me to forego trading both seconds for him, however I would still consider him with one of their 2nd round picks.

TriplecHamp said:

Collins is a great athlete but he's struggled when forced to cover whit his back to the ball. He's been beat in some big spots AFCCG, SB against Marshawn twice with one completed on the final drive. Jack compliments what we have better than Rangland who I also like.

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So allowing a couple of completions in the playoffs is struggling?

Why not mention it was Collins coverage on Lynch on 3rd down in the SB that forced Seattle to punt and the Pats to drive down for the go ahead score?

Joey007 said:

So what unheard of safety will we be getting this year?

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What's the point of this of kind of negativity?

JMC00 said:

Pat Chung's job. He completely shutdown Travis Kelce in the divisional game.

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brb pat chungs fault

Peyton Manning connects with Owen Daniels for 12-yard touchdown

Sciz said:

Not unless they deviate completely from the chart. We'd probably be talking both seconds for an early second plus a late round pick. One second plus both thirds could also work, if only this was 2017 and the comp pick was tradeable.

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By the Trade Value Chart both 2nds get them to #32. So I guess it depends upon how they have prospects ranked. If they feel like a top 20 pick at a position of real need is there Belichick could pull the trigger.

I really want them to make the move for #32, just as a FU to Goodell.

KontradictioN said:

Give me any one of Derrick Henry, Jonathan Williams, CJ Prosise, Alex Collins, Le'Raven Clark, Jerald Hawkins, Chris Jones, Sean Davis, Austin Johnson, or Hassan Ridgeway tonight and I'll be happy. That said, I'm not expecting any of them knowing how this team drafts.

EDIT to add some WR's. Braxton Miller, Sterling Shepard, or Michael Thomas as well.

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Other than Chris Jones I like that list. Imo Jones looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane.

JMC00 said:

So allowing a couple of completions in the playoffs is struggling?

Why not mention it was Collins coverage on Lynch on 3rd down in the SB that forced Seattle to punt and the Pats to drive down for the go ahead score?

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the one where Russell Wilson overthrew him? You can't be srs. It's not like it only happens in the playoff's either. It's okay to admit that a player isn't perfect. Myles Jack (if he's healthy) compliments what we already have very well. He's a quicker athlete than both collins and Hightower and plays the ball a little better. If the 3-3-5 is a real possibility, he's a perfect fit.

TommyBrady12 said:

So who is going to our annual 2nd round special teams ace?

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Sarcastic but great stuff. Alas BB does most right but his Draft skills still are only fair. He does great Trading or picking up FA who make an impact.
I rate him a "C" in the Draft and a "B+" in acquiring FA and Trades

In the last five years he has had 43 Draft picks. Other than JAGS (example: Cannon, Flemming), 7 are starters, 2 are Special Teams and one is a back up QB. In 2015 it should be noted that in the 2015 Class 4 have been injured and 2 cut to be fair. It hovers about a 23% success rate. Ironically pure starters are at 17% or about the NFL average.

I am pretty sure most of us here on this forum could reach 20% with all the media available to us today and make some decent picks. You could almost get a dart board out and do as good. My point is the Draft is not an exact science even for a smart group like the N.E. Pats.

He goes rogue in picking 7th rounders for Second Rounders (see Tavon Wilson) and he leaves talent on the table. I know......... According to who? But TB12 is right. If you know you can get them in the 7th, why do you stretch that high. Go 5th Round if you have fallen in love. I hope he does not do that today.

There are so many factors in Drafting: Injuries, off the field stuff, square peg in a round hole choices, ,misjudgement of talent and capabilities. College coaches are also salesmen. They want their kids Drafted and higher if possible. It makes recruiting better. So doing all of these Pro Day "recitals" are scripted and the Coaches when questions "exaggerate" quite a bit.

Look at Randy Gregory last year. Couldn't keep off the dope for even a few days of the combine. He thanked the Cowboys for believing in him, then damned if he did not start up again when he knew he was being tested....alas yes even your "it's not addicting" smoke drug is indeed addicting.I am sure his coaches told the NFL scouts this was a good kid.Now Dallas is paying.

My point is Draft is a gamble.

DW Toys

Ivan said:

I'm on the bubble in this. I was all for it earlier today but I was unaware that he it's now saying he may need microfracture surgery, which, if true would cause me to forego trading both seconds for him, however I would still consider him with one of their 2nd round picks.

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I just read that Jack says he May need surgery in the future, the emphasis on 'may.' He says that the wear is minimal so he should be ok for now. If like Kirwin says if his career lasted 6-7 years thats fine with me. The way the pats work he could be traded at the end of his rookie contract like C Jones.

primetime said:

I like Jack a metric ton as a player but I'm really afraid his medical is worse than reported. In terms of talent, he's the best player in the draft. There's no reason a team like Seattle would have passed on him if that wasn't the case. My suspicion is he will fall even farther than expected. The Patriots may have a chance at him. I'm not sure if I'd be willing to roll the dice and, as I mentioned, I think he's the best player in the entire draft.

My top 10 right now, minus Jack:
1) Jarran Reed
2) Mackensie Alexander
3) Emmanuel Ogbah
4) Kevin Dodd
5) Reggie Ragland
6) A'Shawn Robinson
7) Xavien Howard
8) Jason Spriggs
9) Jonathan Bullard
10) Su'a Cravens

You'll notice it's mostly defensive linemen.

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I didn't watch any draft coverage last night and I was unaware that Jack may have to have microfracture surgery, that unfortunately changes things imo. I could see using a second but wouldn't use both to go get him.

Ivan said:

Other than Chris Jones I like that list. Imo Jones looks like Tarzan and plays like Jane.

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He plays too upright. For a guy his size, that's a bad thing. He's not my first choice at that spot but, if the Pats can coach that habit out of him, he could be a force.

DW Toys said:

Sarcastic but great stuff. Alas BB does most right but his Draft skill still are only fair. He does great Trading or picking up FA who make an impact.
I rate him a "C" in the Draft and a "B+" in acquiring FA and Trades

In the last five years he has had 43 Draft picks. Other than JAGS (example: Cannon, Flemming), 7 are starters, 2 are Special Teams and one is a back up QB. In 2015 it should be noted that in the 2015 Class 4 have been injured and 2 cut to be fair. It hovers about a 23% success rate. Ironically pure starters are at 17% or about the NFL average.

I am pretty sure most of us here on this forum could reach 20% with all the media available to us today and make some decent picks. You could almost get a dart board out and do as good. My point is the Draft is not an exact science even for a smart group like the Pats.

He goes rogue in picking 7th rounders for Second Rounders (see Tavon Wilson) and he leaves talent on the table. I know according to who? But TB12 is right. If you know you can get them in the 7th, why do you stretch that high. Go 5th Round if you have fallen in love.

There are so many factors in Drafting: Injuries, off the field stuff, square peg in a round hole choices, ,misjudgement of talent and capabilities. College coaches are also salesmen. They want their kids Drafted and higher if possible. It makes recruiting better. So doing all of these Pro Day "recitals" are scripted and the Coaches when questions "exaggerate" quite a bit.

Look at Randy Gregory last year. Couldn't keep off the dope for even a few days of the combine. He thanked the Cowboys for believing in him, then damned if he did not start up again when he knew he was being tested....alas yes even your it's not addicting smoke drug is indeed addicting.I am sure his coaches told the NFL scouts this was a good kid.Now Dallas is paying.

My point is Draft is a gamble.

DW Toys

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Seriously DW, you don't know what you are talking about. Two long term studies have both concluded the Patriots draft better than any team in football. Your hyper fantastical draft posts have no basis in reality.

Joey007 said:

So what unheard of safety will we be getting this year?

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Probley won't happen this year.

KontradictioN said:

He plays too upright. For a guy his size, that's a bad thing. He's not my first choice at that spot but, if the Pats can coach that habit out of him, he could be a force.

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Technique work never concerns me but the talk of him disappearing, taking to many plays off, and simply being completely inconsistent in terms of effort rules any player out for me, especially lineman.

Notable recent Patriots Day Two Picks: Gronk, Chung, Collins, Ryan, Harmon, Spikes, Vereen, Ridley, Vollmer. There is some good value to be had here.

varjao said:

Even though I think Gronk is a Freak of nature and more the exception than the rule, my point is not this exception/rule thing.

The lack of a 1st round pick this year, no 4th next year (I don't underestimate that because the Pats has been getting good value in the 4th round), a lot of 1 year deals, Chandler Jones gone, the (maybe) impossibility of signing all of Hightower, Collins, Butler and even Logan Ryan, Edelman and Amendola hitting the 30 wall plus Edelman foot, I think the picture is not pretty bright for the next couple seasons and I don't think BB will stay around a lot more for another 2-3 year rebuild. BB is always worried about fielding the best possible team for that given season but for me this team was built to hit their prime performance exactly now, these last couple years and this 2016 season. We already won the SB in 2014 and was this close in 2015. We better win again this year against all odds because I'm not so optimistic for 2017. As long as Brady is healthy we always have a shot but there will be a drop off next season IMO.

This is my reasoning, I think there are times that is worth taking a gamble but this time I think the Pats needs to play safe and get players like for example Ridley that while was not a home run hitter was solid and gave good contribution during his 4 years here.

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I think the Patriots are fine cap wise. Amendola and Cannon will work themselves out either this year or next and be cheap or off the team.

When that happens they will have an incredibly cost efficient offense which will allow them to splurge on defense. Gronk/Edeman/Brady are all on super cheap deals in contrast to what they should be paid.

Solder is paid a lot but he is a LT so that is just how it has to be if he is any good at all and Vollmer is getting paid fine for a RT but might be replaced next year depending on this draft for a cheap young option. We will see.

There will be ways to trim money on D. As long as you keep Butler, McCourty, Collins, Hightower and Sheard they will be able to work around the rest. I think those 5 are the key though and will need to be paid and they can afford it

Ivan said:

Technique work never concerns me but the talk of him disappearing, taking to many plays off, and simply being completely inconsistent in terms of effort rules any player out for me, especially lineman.

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knee bend and positioning for leverage is a general side effect of effort

TriplecHamp said:

brb pat chungs fault

Peyton Manning connects with Owen Daniels for 12-yard touchdown

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If there was an award for most underrated player of the year I think Patrick Chung would have won it last year. He deserved to be in the probowl easily. He had monster games and all around was one of the best SS in the NFL.

AtomicDawg said:

Notable recent Patriots Day Two Picks: Gronk, Chung, Collins, Ryan, Harmon, Spikes, Vereen, Ridley, Vollmer. There is some good value to be had here.

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Barwin should be there.......that fact alone drops overall draft grade by a letter