Once again, Sally Jenkins nails it...

Mack Herron said:

True, but Berman probably was not going to overturn NFL, and CA2 probably was not going to overturn Berman. En banc is a higher hurdle, but it's not over till Brady says so. Every case is different and this one has been unexpected all along.

Click to expand...

You're right.

I read Katzmann's dissent. It is very strong and he is the Chief Judge. Chin is probably well-regarded so that's going to be a problem and Kessler was rolled by him, but Parker is a transparently political political hack and he (his clerks) wrote the opinion.

So, yes, there might be hope.

RecoveringCowboy said:

True, but I remember the last CBA and the players did not save their money and prepare for the siege.

NFL owners won't run hurry-up offense vs. players

If they prepared this time and had owners concerned an entire season could be canceled, they might think harder about Goodell's authority.

Click to expand...

I don't understand why the owners even want him to have that....yeah it generates a buzz but it's starting to seriously hurt the league's reputation.

RecoveringCowboy said:

True, but I remember the last CBA and the players did not save their money and prepare for the siege.

NFL owners won't run hurry-up offense vs. players

If they prepared this time and had owners concerned an entire season could be canceled, they might think harder about Goodell's authority.

Click to expand...

As long as Demaurice Smith is head of the NFLPA, bending over is going to be the "order of the day."

TommyBrady12 said:

What's your gut feeling? Is it over?

Click to expand...

There's a ray of hope because of the strength of Katzmann's dissent, which everyone out here should read.

Chin is the obstacle. He was probing Kessler but Kessler took it personally and wasn't prepared to argue Brady's innocence. Chin gave him a chance to make a forceful argument, but he lost his cool. Chin's history is as a labor lawyer whose mentor, the late and iconic Judith Vladeck, took on unpopular causes. I think he could have been persuaded, but Kessler chose to take it personally and gave him nowhere to turn. People should ignore the tone of his questions. He was giving Kessler a chance to make a different argument and he was unable to do so on his feet. He was poorly prepared and out of his league up against Clement. In the end, Chin let Parker (his clerks) write the opinion.

Parker is a political hack and the other judges no doubt know that. So, if Katzmann is committed enough to "justice" in this case to twist arms, they might get an en banc hearing.

I'd put it at around a 10% chance...about ten times better than the average chance of getting such a hearing before this court.

Froob said:

I don't understand why the owners even want him to have that....yeah it generates a buzz but it's starting to seriously hurt the league's reputation.

Click to expand...

I don't think the owners or the league care about their reputation.....they believe they have the general public fixated.....if you look at some of the details of the last lockout, it really falls into line with what we see with deflategate.....they're pretty ruthless

2011 NFL lockout - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PatsFanSince74 said:

As long as Demaurice Smith is head of the NFLPA, bending over is going to be the "order of the day."

Click to expand...

I'm not sure there is a single guy out there that could go up against the NFL.........Goodell is just the Megaphone for a very united money making scheme......

The next CBA could lead to a huge change the way the entire league operates.......could be the end of the anti-trust esemption, the players could hammer the concussion and player safety thing......its gonna be chaos

IllegalContact said:

I'm not sure there is a single guy out there that could go up against the NFL.........Goodell is just the Megaphone for a very united money making scheme......

The next CBA could lead to a huge change the way the entire league operates.......could be the end of the anti-trust esemption, the players could hammer the concussion and player safety thing......its gonna be chaos

Click to expand...

From your lips to God's ears...but, at the end of the day, the players are going to have to be ready to give up some...maybe many...paychecks. I'm very skeptical that they will be willing to do so.

PatsFanSince74 said:

From your lips to God's ears...but, at the end of the day, the players are going to have to be ready to give up some...maybe many...paychecks. I'm very skeptical that they will be willing to do so.

Click to expand...

They are the weakest union in sports, and aren't going to go to the mattresses over this because I don't think the rank and file sees it as something that impacts most of them.

Owners don't care about short term damage because they know we will all go back to them once games start back up again - and they're right.

XLIX said:

Owners don't care about short term damage because they know we will all go back to them once games start back up again - and they're right.

Click to expand...

Maybe you will. How you can do it knowing that that is their plan all along, I can't fathom.

ReverendMaynard said:

Maybe you will. How you can do it knowing that that is their plan all along, I can't fathom.

Click to expand...

Alcohol and massive amounts of smoked meat

Ivan said:

Jenkins is right, the lawyers got caught up in arguing the scope of Goodell's powers, which is what the league's lawyers wanted them to do. The salient point is the unfairness of the arbitrator and the only way to demonstrate that was to make clear that they convicted an innocent man. I.e..... It's only unfair if he's innocent, and they didn't hammer that point home.

No one has represented Brady and the Patriots better than Sally Jenkins

Click to expand...

Sorry, but Brady's team was constrained to make arguments based in the law. Goodell's findings as the arbitrator put in place by the CBA were imprinted on the record as "facts" because that's what the law and the CBA demand. Brady would've been thrown out of court on day 1 if his only basis for appeal was that Goodell's facts are wrong. There needs to be a legal anchor to which they attach their arguments - hence the emphasis about notice and fairness of the arbitration process.

It seems legalistic, but that's because it is. Kessler defended Brady in the court of law. Jenkins defends him in the court of public opinion. Those two things are very distinct.

ReverendMaynard said:

Maybe you will. How you can do it knowing that that is their plan all along, I can't fathom.

Click to expand...

You seem not to realize that you are currently taking part in posting on a forum of an NFL franchise.

Totally agreed. All this time I've felt disappointed and underwhelmed with Kessler and the NFLPA's efforts.

XLIX said:

You seem not to realize that you are currently taking part in posting on a forum of an NFL franchise.

Click to expand...

This is a non-official site, which supplies zero revenue to the NFL or any of its franchises. I will never again buy any merchandise, buy any tickets, step inside any NFL stadium, watch any program on ESPN or NFLN, or watch any NFL games. I don't think that's the kind of "go[ing] back" the owners are counting on.

ReverendMaynard said:

This is a non-official site, which supplies zero revenue to the NFL or any of its franchises. I will never again buy any merchandise, buy any tickets, step inside any NFL stadium, watch any program on ESPN or NFLN, or watch any NFL games. I don't think that's the kind of "go[ing] back" the owners are counting on.

Click to expand...

Honest question: If you don't watch any Patriots games, then why are you even in here discussing them?

Seems like a very strange way to pass time; discussing a sport you don't watch or follow.

XLIX said:

Honest question: If you don't watch any Patriots games, then why are you even in here discussing them?

Seems like a very strange way to pass time; discussing a sport you don't watch or follow.

Click to expand...

I'm discussing a topic that I am interested in. You won't see me in topics about the draft, FA, the schedule, or anything to do with the team's future prospects because IDGAF anymore. I'm here to discuss my disgust with the entire organization that is the NFL and it's franchises. If my discussing it gets just one more former fan to follow my lead, all the better.

XLIX said:

You seem not to realize that you are currently taking part in posting on a forum of an NFL franchise.

Click to expand...

No this is Ian's forum, and I know it costs him a fortune to run, but he graciously lets the rest of us use it for free!

ReverendMaynard said:

I'm discussing a topic that I am interested in. You won't see me in topics about the draft, FA, the schedule, or anything to do with the team's future prospects because IDGAF anymore. I'm here to discuss my disgust with the entire organization that is the NFL and it's franchises. If my discussing it gets just one more former fan to follow my lead, all the better.

Click to expand...

Suit yourself. Just seems like an awful waste of time. The last thing I would do is spend my time on the forum of a sport that I didn't care about.

XLIX said:

They are the weakest union in sports, and aren't going to go to the mattresses over this because I don't think the rank and file sees it as something that impacts most of them.

Owners don't care about short term damage because they know we will all go back to them once games start back up again - and they're right.

Click to expand...

I think that has something to do with contracts not being guaranteed.....

as for going back, I never left..........but my wallet did.......I think the best approach is to simply not send a penny towards the NFL...I mean its hard to nitpick your cable bill, but that's as far as it goes

ReverendMaynard said:

I'm discussing a topic that I am interested in. You won't see me in topics about the draft, FA, the schedule, or anything to do with the team's future prospects because IDGAF anymore. I'm here to discuss my disgust with the entire organization that is the NFL and it's franchises. If my discussing it gets just one more former fan to follow my lead, all the better.

Click to expand...

This is interesting to you.....do you walk around picking up roadkill?