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When Brady Retires, are you done?


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I'm a fan of this franchise, it's my only true sporting love. It'll take more than this for me to drop the NFL because I love the on the field product so much more than I am angered by this off the field ****.
 
Yeah not sure how involved Wyc is but, putting Danny Ainge in charge was the best move he's ever made. Danny and Brad are the best duo in the league. Ballmer and Vivek are idiots. Kings are one of the most dysfunctional franchises in the league. The only coach that could ever have DeMarcus Cousins behaving was canned because Cousins was hurt and the team had a really bad stretch. Pure idiocy.

Vivek and Ballmer aren't idiots. I don't think we can reasonably have it both ways when evaluating owners. It's only been a couple years for both of them, and they're both constrained by the dysfunction that existed in their organizations long before they got there. They're in the learning process, and in the mean time, they're at a minimum talented, hard-working, insightful men who have succeeded in industries where genuine merit is a prerequisite for success. There's a learning curve to being a good owner--Bob Kraft had his own issues that he had to iron out before he could learn to shut up, keep quiet, and let Belichick do his job--and these guys absolutely need to go through that curve. But at least they're starting from a foundation of merit that gives you reason to believe that they will become competent at running their individual franchises. And even if their franchises aren't good, their general philosophies and stewardship of the league likely will be. Basically, regardless of what's happening with their teams, they have the kind of vision that will help the league as a whole.

When new blood comes into ownership, the new owner gets a seat at the table because he's the kind of person who was able to marshal up 10 figures of money to get a seat at the table. Assuming you weren't born into that kind of money, you have to have done something really well to get there. Conversely, when ownership is inherited, the new owner gets a seat at the table because of his last name, regardless of however competent or incompetent he may be. Sure, sometimes the former group produces Dan Snyder, and sometimes the latter group produces someone decent. But in general, you want the former steering the ship. The more of the former that you have--and the fewer of the latter--the better off you are.

And re: Wyc's involvement with the Celtics, under his ownership the team has done a fantastic job of a) hiring the right people, b) delegating the proper amount of authority to those people, and c) building corporate and community relationships to the benefit of the team. The more I think about it, the more I think that he's pretty much the model owner.
 
Terrible ownership? Really??
Well leeds have definitely had terrible ownership, would love to have had kraft running the show. Some on here seem to have turned on him though. On the overall point, I don't get how, I don't like how we've been treated by the nfl, becomes, I'm not watching the patriots play anymore. Seems a strange leap.
 
I'm not trying to prove anything....you're the one trying to prove that watching the Pats is beneath you...I'm still going to do what I've always done because its only entertainment

I have no interest in judging anyone for how they feel about the direction the NFL has taken. Anyone that will keep watching unconditionally, good for them. Anyone who's out, good for them. Anyone who has mixed feelings, I can sympathize. I'm not going to judge anyone for where they land on this, partly because it's not my place to, partly because I don't think I know enough to, and partly because I don't care to.

Meanwhile, for some weird reason, you insist on declaring a bunch of lifelong, diehard football fans fairweather, self-hating masqueraders because they're willing to contemplate that there may be a breaking point in all of this.

I don't get how you arrived at that conclusion, but sometimes people need to do some really weird mental gymnastics to feel superior to others, so I think I'll just chalk it up to that.
 
this "follow the team until Brady Belichick retire" thing is confounding. Can anyone explain the reasoning? It sounds fair-weather.

Personally, it goes something like this. Brady and Belichick have been in my life since I was 16. My connection to them is borderline weird, and my attachment by level goes something like this:

1: Belichick, Brady
2: Patriots
3: football in general
4. NFL

There was a time when I might have put the Patriots over Belichick/Brady, but that's no longer the case. And FWIW, in basketball, baseball, and hockey, 1 and 2 are always flipped; I always root for the team first and the players second. But for football, right now my feelings towards 2 through 4 can be described as anything between conflicted and disgusted. Kraft's actions--starting with Spygate, hitting a new level with his public endorsement of Goodell during the Ray Rice fiasco, and culminating in his Deflategate capitulation--has me feeling a bit bitter toward the Patriots. Everything we've learned about CTE and the fact that it's probably intrinsic to football has left me deeply conflicted about the sport, and pretty much everything that's happened in the last decade has filled me with nothing but contempt for the NFL.

But as long as Brady and Belichick are around, my rooting interest in them is uncompromised. They're basically the reason I'm still here at all, because I respect the hell out of them, enjoy rooting for them, and don't have any reservation at all in doing so. The few players/coaches that I'm invested in are the only part of going to a game and rooting for the Patriots that is completely black and white, and that I don't feel in any way conflicted about.

Once Brady and Belichick are gone, the top level of that hierarchy is gone, and it just leaves a sport, a franchise, and a league that I'm uneasy at best and disgusted at worst to support. It's not about abandoning ship when the team becomes bad. The Pats have been consistently good since I was a teenager, but I've rooted for some really bad Celtics, Red Sox, and Bruins teams. It wasn't enough for the 1993-2007 Celtics to be bad, my favorite player had to die on the practice court for good measure. The Bruins were so bad that I got to watch my favorite player's career ended on a dirty play that destroyed his hip, then a few years later watched Boston throw a parade for another team winning the Stanley Cup because it meant at least one of our guys got to win something. Never stopped watching, though. It takes a whole lot more than an awful team for me to contemplate abandoning a sport, team, or league entirely.

I already watch way fewer non-Patriots games than I used to. Partly because I hate the league at large, and partly because every time a player goes down, I find myself wondering exactly how many years he just took off his life and how much trouble that'll give him with maintaining basic mobility and the ability to recognize his children into his 50s, let alone old age. The NFL, the sport of football, and the Patriots have together created the kind of perfect storm that I never would have seen coming in a million years pre-2007, but taking all of it together I've decided that once Brady and Belichick are gone, I can't imagine there will be anything keeping me here.
 
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I dunno.

I'm not bothered by deflategate or Kraft (thought he's done superb for years) and I still like NFL football.

But, I'm probably more of a BB/TB fan at this point than a Patriots fan, or rather the awesome Patriots identity seems to be so locked into BB/TB. I'm not sure if I'll have the same excitement for the team.

BUT, I really hope I do have the same excitement. Go Pats!

(Disclosure: I didn't become a football fan until 2001)
 
Nope but the nfl and/or patriots will never get another dime out of me until both goodell and kraft are gone. Nothing, wont even buy a keyring with a patriots logo on it and give them that 8 cents that would have been their share of the sale.
 
I'm a fan of this franchise, it's my only true sporting love. It'll take more than this for me to drop the NFL because I love the on the field product so much more than I am angered by this off the field ****.

Well said, this sums up how I feel borderline perfectly...
 
No, if I could hang in there during the 1-15 1990 season, I can hang in there through this.
 
Nope. I guess I'm a Patriots fan still too. Not just a Brady fan.
 
For me, I'm just not a football fan anymore. I absolutely loathe the NFL but the actual sport makes me uncomfortable now.

I definitely do NOT like reading stories about players I cheered for dropping dead in various unpleasant ways. When I was younger and all about football, I didn't know any of this crap about head injuries and CTE. Now that I do, I find myself wondering when I'll read about Gronk or Edelman's untimely death some years from now. It's unsettling. I feel guilty cheering over every big hit. The other injuries that decimate the team each year take away from the experience as well. Exactly why would I continue to give my time and/or money to this when Brady and Belichick are gone? It would be easier for me if they would both retire now, then I don't have to suffer through another season feeling conflicted.

Go ahead and call me a "fair-weather fan." That's an insult on par with "you have cooties!" to me.
 
Some on here seem to have turned on him though.

Some?

Some on here have turned on him like some people don't like Donald Trump.

Despite what happened to the Chiefs, despite the strong statements Kraft made after Brady got the shaft the people who believe that Kraft is a spineless member of the owner's club first and Pat's owner 2nd definitely seem like the majority here.
 
Vivek and Ballmer aren't idiots. I don't think we can reasonably have it both ways when evaluating owners. It's only been a couple years for both of them, and they're both constrained by the dysfunction that existed in their organizations long before they got there. They're in the learning process, and in the mean time, they're at a minimum talented, hard-working, insightful men who have succeeded in industries where genuine merit is a prerequisite for success. There's a learning curve to being a good owner--Bob Kraft had his own issues that he had to iron out before he could learn to shut up, keep quiet, and let Belichick do his job--and these guys absolutely need to go through that curve. But at least they're starting from a foundation of merit that gives you reason to believe that they will become competent at running their individual franchises. And even if their franchises aren't good, their general philosophies and stewardship of the league likely will be. Basically, regardless of what's happening with their teams, they have the kind of vision that will help the league as a whole.

When new blood comes into ownership, the new owner gets a seat at the table because he's the kind of person who was able to marshal up 10 figures of money to get a seat at the table. Assuming you weren't born into that kind of money, you have to have done something really well to get there. Conversely, when ownership is inherited, the new owner gets a seat at the table because of his last name, regardless of however competent or incompetent he may be. Sure, sometimes the former group produces Dan Snyder, and sometimes the latter group produces someone decent. But in general, you want the former steering the ship. The more of the former that you have--and the fewer of the latter--the better off you are.

And re: Wyc's involvement with the Celtics, under his ownership the team has done a fantastic job of a) hiring the right people, b) delegating the proper amount of authority to those people, and c) building corporate and community relationships to the benefit of the team. The more I think about it, the more I think that he's pretty much the model owner.
Eh, Balmer did change those uniforms to uniforms that literally nobody likes. Just awful the Clippers could have had sweet jerseys like these
http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae243/funkatron101/Clippers-jersey_zps0a5c97b1.jpg

Vivek needs to stop meddling at least. Forced the Kings to draft Nik Stauskas who was awful in Sacramento. Balmer might end up alright, he needs to fire Doc Rivers if he won't give up his GM power. Doc is a good coach but, if you have to have Doc the GM too then bye bye.
 
Some?

Some on here have turned on him like some people don't like Donald Trump.

Despite what happened to the Chiefs, despite the strong statements Kraft made after Brady got the shaft the people who believe that Kraft is a spineless member of the owner's club first and Pat's owner 2nd definitely seem like the majority here.
It doesn't bother you though that the Krafts keep saying how wonderful Roger is? It's a damn shame BB doesn't own the team too. It'd be nice to have an owner that won't play nicely with the billionaires club.
 
Both BB and Brady deserve to be billionaires and own this franchise, maybe in the future who knows
 
Both BB and Brady deserve to be billionaires and own this franchise, maybe in the future who knows
Man would they hate BB, the irony that he's been made out to be an arrogant prick when he's actually the most classy and respectful coach there has ever been.
 
I might not wait that long. This is WWE-level nonsense. I am interested in sport. If I want theater there are better options.
 
Once Brady and BB are done, Im out until Goodell is out. Been taking up futbal for the past 6 years and I love it almost as much as football. It feels like cheating but your wife is ok with it.
 
I have no interest in judging anyone for how they feel about the direction the NFL has taken. Anyone that will keep watching unconditionally, good for them. Anyone who's out, good for them. Anyone who has mixed feelings, I can sympathize. I'm not going to judge anyone for where they land on this, partly because it's not my place to, partly because I don't think I know enough to, and partly because I don't care to.

Meanwhile, for some weird reason, you insist on declaring a bunch of lifelong, diehard football fans fairweather, self-hating masqueraders because they're willing to contemplate that there may be a breaking point in all of this.

I don't get how you arrived at that conclusion, but sometimes people need to do some really weird mental gymnastics to feel superior to others, so I think I'll just chalk it up to that.

That's easy....you're about become not lifelong fans because of something you disagree with.....that makes you fair weather

The specifics don't matter

Actually none of it matters because most of you will actually never quit .... It just sounds good about now
 
Once Brady and BB are done, Im out until Goodell is out. Been taking up futbal for the past 6 years and I love it almost as much as football. It feels like cheating but your wife is ok with it.

Now this is definitely fair weather
 
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