The Elephant In The Room - The Situation At Corner

mgteich · Apr 16, 2016

If everyone stays healthy and has the season that they had in 2015, then we're fine for 2016, with ZERO starters for 2017. Perhaps, Roberts will be the first player to spend his rookie year on IR, and then become a starter for us, or not.
=================
I think that we don't discuss the situation at corner because there is little answer other than hope. And hope is NOT a plan.

I congratulate Belichick for bringing in Biggers to compete with Coleman for the nickel position. I would also point out that this roster position is a very important one, and perhaps worthy of using resources to upgrade.

If this were a GOOD year for corners, I could see us draft two corners in the first 100, plus bringing in a free agent or two. Of course, a bit of the pressure could be taken off by extending Ryan or Butler.

manxman2601 · Apr 16, 2016

mgteich said:
If everyone stays healthy and has the season that they had in 2015, then we're fine for 2016, with ZERO starters for 2017. Perhaps, Roberts will be the first player to spend his rookie year on IR, and then become a starter for us, or not.
=================
I think that we don't discuss the situation at corner because there is little answer other than hope. And hope is NOT a plan.

I congratulate Belichick for bringing in Biggers to compete with Coleman for the nickel position. I would also point out that this roster position is a very important one, and perhaps worthy of using resources to upgrade.

If this were a GOOD year for corners, I could see us draft two corners in the first 100, plus bringing in a free agent or two. Of course, a bit of the pressure could be taken off by extending Ryan or Butler.

Problem is, it's not a particularly good year for corners. There are some interesting developmental prospects but only a couple I'd really consider in the top 100. There are some decent early day three prospects that are worth considering and there are, in my mind, two potentially really good sleepers in Kalan Reed & Frankie Williams.

But we have been discussing corners. I had a CB at 60 (Sean Davis) in my last mock and have been fairly high on Cyrus Jones for a while now.

zimmy · Apr 16, 2016

I'm not as negative about our corner situation as you. Butler was really pretty good last year and he will be here through 2017 or we get a 1st round pick. So we have our no 1 corner locked up two more years.

Ryan is a serviceable number 2. The question is do we think the market will overvalue him? I don't see Bill offering much more than the Kyle Arrington/Leigh Bodden type contract of about 5m a year.

I imagine a draft pick will come in and compete for the 3rd corner spot this year with a view to fighting for the number 2 spot next year if we don't resign Ryan.

I was also very high on Roberts in the draft last year and have hopes for him. Always the chance Tarrell Brown comes back if he is health too. Butler, Ryan, Coleman, Roberts and a 2nd/3rd round draft pick sounds alright to me.

Surely the biggest area of need is the defensive line? We only really have Malcom Brown locked up past this year. Nink, Sheard, Long, Branch, Knighton all free agents after this year and we don't know what we have in Flowers/Grissom.

Ochmed Jones · Apr 16, 2016

manxman2601 said:
Problem is, it's not a particularly good year for corners. There are some interesting developmental prospects but only a couple I'd really consider in the top 100. There are some decent early day three prospects that are worth considering and there are, in my mind, two potentially really good sleepers in Kalan Reed & Frankie Williams.

But we have been discussing corners. I had a CB at 60 (Sean Davis) in my last mock and have been fairly high on Cyrus Jones for a while now.

I am not a fan of jones, but I love Davis's game. The CB/safety hybrid with 4.4 speed is a guy bb can do a lot with.

I have him in my mock at #91. Tweeters tend to drop as teams prefer guys they know where to plug in.

manxman2601 · Apr 16, 2016

Ochmed Jones said:
I am not a fan of jones, but I love Davis's game. The CB/safety hybrid with 4.4 speed is a guy bb can do a lot with.

I have him in my mock at #91. Tweeters tend to drop as teams prefer guys they know where to plug in.

Eric Rowe and Byron Jones didn't. Teams value size and athleticism. I think you might need to take him at 61 because I doubt he makes it to 91, especially with this fairly weak class.

mgteich · Apr 16, 2016

zimmy said:
I'm not as negative about our corner situation as you. Butler was really pretty good last year and he will be here through 2017 or we get a 1st round pick. So we have our no 1 corner locked up two more years.

/QUOTE]

So, you're fine with starting a 1st round corner drafted in the 20's of the first round. BTW, if Butler were an RFA this year, how many corners available in the 20's would you be comfortable starting in place of Butler?

NewFeep · Apr 16, 2016

I don't what te answer is at CB, I wish I did. Whatever BB does we all better hope Butler and Ryan stay healthy........

Bourne Again Christian · Apr 16, 2016

Daryl Roberts and Justin Coleman say hello

Sciz · Apr 16, 2016

I'm less worried about what a rookie CB could contribute in 2016, but more interested in if he can be a 2017 starter. I think Logan Ryan is good enough and young enough to get a 4 or 5 year contract from somebody, but he's also probably the Patriots' fifth most important defensive free agent. If letting him go is what it takes to re-sign the top 4, then I think you have to let him go, preferably with a cheaper option already in place. I've put a lot more thought into general team-building than specific prospects this offseason, but Sean Davis sounds like one candidate.

I think a similar argument can be made at RT (Vollmer), DT (Branch, Knighton), and DE (Ninkovich, Long), but they'll all be 30+ while Ryan will hit free agency at 26.

Bourne Again Christian · Apr 16, 2016

Agree love Logan Ryan but not at the expense of Collins High and Butler.
Which of the big 3 is the most replacable then Sheard would be next on the priority list.
Thinking we cut alot of fat off the O next season to pay those 4.

I.M. Fletcher · Apr 16, 2016

I actually wouldn't be surprised if they went with a cover safety in the second. Simmons may not still be there, but he would be on my short list of picks. Thompson is another possibility if he's available.

I really like the athleticism of our group. While they are undersized, that's never been a particular issue for belichick.

Chung is basically a linebacker now, Richards is an ss and Harmon is up after the season. We have a lot of youth at corner, we really don't have enough at safety.

mgteich · Apr 16, 2016

ChrisR2223 said:
Daryl Roberts and Justin Coleman say hello

And these players may have a fine year, or not.

Roberts would be the first patriot to ever spend his entire rookie season on IR and then become a major the next year (or in any year).

mgteich · Apr 16, 2016

ChrisR2223 said:
Daryl Roberts and Justin Coleman say hello

And where do you think these two rate in a list of the league's top 100 corners?

ctpatsfan77 · Apr 17, 2016

mgteich said:
And these players may have a fine year, or not.

You can only do so much: you can't plan for having (almost) every single goddamn OL getting hurt during the same season, or losing the entire middle of your starting D front 7 in a three-week span.

IllegalContact · Apr 17, 2016

mgteich said:
If everyone stays healthy and has the season that they had in 2015, then we're fine for 2016, with ZERO starters for 2017. Perhaps, Roberts will be the first player to spend his rookie year on IR, and then become a starter for us, or not.
=================
I think that we don't discuss the situation at corner because there is little answer other than hope. And hope is NOT a plan.

I congratulate Belichick for bringing in Biggers to compete with Coleman for the nickel position. I would also point out that this roster position is a very important one, and perhaps worthy of using resources to upgrade.

If this were a GOOD year for corners, I could see us draft two corners in the first 100, plus bringing in a free agent or two. Of course, a bit of the pressure could be taken off by extending Ryan or Butler.

You could say the same thing about LB and DE

manxman2601 · Apr 17, 2016

mgteich said:
And where do you think these two rate in a list of the league's top 100 corners?

Where do any of the players we're likely to draft stand in the top 100? Coleman had an in\mpressive year last year for a UDFA and spent more time on the field than Malcolm Butler did in his rookie year. I'm not prepared to give up on a young player after one year.

IllegalContact · Apr 17, 2016

It starts and stops with line play.......if they're good enough, you can win an SB with a UDFA rookie (Gay) and a 2nd year 4th round pick (Samuel) as your corners

zipster9 · Apr 17, 2016

Dunno why everyone is so high on, Cyrus Jones. He is a runt. 5'10".

CB picks to consider:
Xavien Howard
Sean Davis

manxman2601 · Apr 17, 2016

zipster9 said:
Dunno why everyone is so high on, Cyrus Jones. He is a runt. 5'10".

CB picks to consider:
Xavien Howard
Sean Davis

He's exactly the same size as Malcolm Butler.

zimmy · Apr 17, 2016

I quite like Will Redmond. His injury could cause him to drop to the end of the 3rd where he would be a good pick up. Has natural cover talent that can't be taught. Needs to get stronger still but can work on that

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